THOR versus CONAN
What If Thor of Asgard Had Met Conan the Barbarian? (Marvel)
Where: What If? #39 When: June 1983
Why: Alan Zelenetz How: Ron Wilson
The Story So Far...
Victorious in battle with the Frost Giants of Jotunheim: Thor, God of Thunder, followed his wicked half-brother into a cavernous labyrinth. In search of the mischief-making Loki, Thor chose a path that led him backwards through time, into the realm of Troy during the Trojan War.
This was but one course of history, but what of the path not taken? In another reality, Thor chose a different tunnel, one that led him to ancient age of Hyboria! There, his memory was lost and godly powers diminished, making him prone to the wanted warrior-thief stalking Corinthia: Conan The Barbarian!
Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Thor 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Conan 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Draw 3 (Athlete)
Stamina: Thor 6 (Generator)
Agility: Draw 2 (Average)
Fighting: Conan 7 (Living Weapon)
Energy: Thor 5 (Lasers)
Total: Thor 32 (Super)
It's a fantasy fight worthy of the greatest myths and legend! A dream battle, bridging the gulf of time and reality to pit God against Barbarian! The question is simple: What if Thor of Asgard met Conan the Cimmerian?
This is the first time we've seen Conan on The Comic Book Fight Club! His reputation precedes him, but he may not always be well represented by assumptions. Yes, Conan is a savage warrior -- but he's also a learned traveler, and incredibly canny combat strategist. Skills he'll certainly need to best a god!
Conan is stronger and more durable than most normal men, but he isn't super-human. Ordinarily that would put him at a significant disadvantage against the nigh invulnerable god of thunder, but this battle features a weakened Thor.
When Beta Ray Bill first battled the Odinson in Thor #337, he demonstrated that an evenly matched opponent could challenge Thor with pure heart and courage. Conan has plenty of both, but its unlikely the barbarian would be deemed worthy of wielding the enchanted hammer Mjolnir against Thor, as Bill was.
Mjolnir has been key to Thor winning against some other high-profile crossover opponents. The hammer's influence over lightning helped quash the pantheon of powers at Captain Marvel's disposal, in Marvel versus DC #2. He also got the drop on Superman with Mjolnir, sucker-striking him in JLA/Avengers #1!
Thor wasn't quite himself when he attacked Superman and he isn't quite himself in today's battle, either. His travel has left him weakened, but also disoriented. That could be significant, if his history with fugue states is anything to go by!
When Thor succumbed to a madness, he became a rampaging berserker who dominated many powerful challengers, including the Super-Skrull [Thor #464], and Drax The Destroyer [Warlock and The Infinity Watch #21]! There was also the Heroes Reborn pocket universe Thor, who was manipulated by Loki into fighting the entire Avengers to a standstill in Avengers (Vol.2) #1. All in all, disorientation only makes Thor a more dangerous threat. Bad news for Conan!
Conan won't hesitate to exploit Thor's apparent vulnerability, but the odds of cutting him asunder with a sword still seems remote. Without his usual strength, endurance, and command of the storm, Thor's vulnerable, but the only way we can truly know what would happen is by reading on!
The Tape: Thor Ranking: Thor (#29)
What Went Down...
Suddenly struck with an unshakeable disorientation, Thor encounters a pack of Corinthian soldiers on the hunt. Little does any of them realize, they're being watched from the mountains above by the wanted thief: Conan The Cimmerian!
A sudden hail of boulders betrays Conan's position as he uses the terrain to secure a tactical advantage against the four soldiers and Thor! The Thunderer escapes harm, but scales the mountain to confront his unseen attacker!
Conan mistakes the blonde-haired god for a contemporary of Aesir, but his lack of quarrel with those of the North doesn't interest Thor. He launches himself at the appeasing Cimmerian -- sending both tumbling down the mountain side!
The barbarian mockingly presumes madness on Thor's behalf. Only a madman would travel so far to "have his bowels carved in warmer climes!" They scramble to their feet and Conan makes the first move, aiming to oblige his new foe!
The overhead sword strike is easily blocked by Thor's hammer. He swings wildly in retaliation, completing his arc just in time to block the ducking barbarian's sword!
The verbal sparring continues as Conan swings for Thor's neck, but again strikes blade to uru metal hammer! Incensed by Conan's bravado as much as his fighting, Thor swings Mjolnir with renewed purpose - swatting the sword away!
The barbarian is disarmed, but by no means harmless! With impressive strength he hoists a massive boulder above his head and tosses it at his opponent!
Thor goes down and suffers the indignation of further taunting! Conan compares the toppled thunder god to a tortoise and stokes his godly ire! Thor leaps back to his feat and charges at Conan to grapple hand-to-hand in a test of strength!
Even with his senses dulled, Thor's godly strength is more than a match for the Cimmerian warrior. The thunderer hurls Conan wildly into surrounding rock!
The impact would devastate any ordinary man, but Conan endures, remarking in awe of the incredible strength possessed by his mysterious foe! The barbarian rises, not with aggression in his heart, but respect!
His arms hang peacefully by his sides as Conan assures Thor it is no act of treachery. With that, Thor stays his hand & hammer as well, recruited to be Conan's travelling partner. He receives a fallen Conrinthian's sword at Conan's assistance and the pair head off into a new adventure.
The Hammer...
Well, there you have it! The battle ends in a mutual ceasefire, leaving fans of each warrior to debate the merits of their combat beyond its conclusion.
There's an obvious case to be made that Thor had the advantage thanks to his superior strength. That said, Conan is also renowned for his ability to endure, and was down but far from out when Thor turned on the muscle!
Here on Secret Wars on Infinite Earths we primarily focus on the results that did happen, but if prompted to ask "What If?", I would certainly lean in favour of an eventual Thor victory. Of course, by the end of the issue, it's the weakened Thor who perishes in final battle with Stygian wizard Thoth-Amon. Not Conan!
You might scoff at the thought of Thor dying in such a way, but grim death was a traditional fixture of the What if? series, particularly into its second volume, where a 'be careful what you wish for' element to stories was common.
I was already thinking about today's battle from What If? (Vol.1) #39 thanks to the announcement that Conan The Barbarian will join the Marvel Universe in May's Savage Avengers. Imagine my surprise earlier this week when /Film also reported an animated version of What If? is in development for Disney+!
According to the story, the streaming What If? cartoon will feature branching alternate realities based on events from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. That makes it hard to imagine episodes punctuated with major hero's deaths, but you never do know! The first confirmed story will feature Loki finding the hammer of Thor, borrowing a basic concept from What If? (Vol.1) #47.
Reducing the series to Marvel's movie slate limits the scope that made What If? one of my favourite series growing up, but if it also minimizes the chance for creating cumbersome rifts within the mainstream universe. A good thing, since it's still a crapshoot whether these movies "get it right", and far too early to start subverting what's still in the process of being established.
Marvel had a library of almost two decades worth of monthly printed adventures before the concept of What If? was introduced in 1977. Even more, if you also include the Golden Age of characters like Captain America and Sub-Mariner! Granted, those stories were much less likely to be drawn from than the modern pages of the "Marvel Age", begun with 1961's Fantastic Four, who also starred in the first issue of What If?, in a reference to 1963's Amazing Spider-Man #1.
Simple ideas like Spider-man joining the Fantastic Four -- instead of being rejected -- are a lot of fun when you have a firm grasp of who the characters are. When these stories intrude upon informing an audience, that tends to erode at the core concept, damage lode baring ideas, and generally lead to sloppy and increasingly meaningless fiction.
I'm not quite sure if that's how I would view Conan The Barbarian becoming part of the Marvel Universe with Savage Avengers, but it's close.
Marvel has a long history with the pulp barbarian, who was created in 1932 for Weird Tales magazine by Robert E Howard. Marvel started publishing stories in 1970, helping usher in the modern (or bronze) age of comics. Despite all this, Conan is owned and licensed by Cabinet Entertainment -- not Marvel.
Marvel have tied some licensed characters into their shared universe before. Iron Man and SHIELD battled Godzilla. ROM Space Knight and Micronauts led superheroes and toylines to meet with some regularity, as well. Of course, in the case of ROM, I can't help but think of the years of licensing entanglements that kept collections from being reprinted. Which is one of the reasons bringing Conan into Marvel Comics proper seems like a bigger hassle than its worth.
To that point: As far as I know, "What If? Classic" collections omitted this and other issues containing Conan. That might be rectified now that the Conan license is back with Marvel, and an animated series might drive interest in reissued collections, but you need only imagine if this were a regular series to see the frustration that could lie ahead with Savage Avengers.
For my money, these type of crossovers are best released as mini-series. Isolated stories that play with the concepts, deliver dream matches, but don't overstay their welcome, damage either property, or cause long term problems.
I'm sure we'll be back to look at more from the Thor & Conan team-up. If you'd like to find more crossover dream matches, or just discover more tales from different universes - dive into the Secret Archive! There you'll find every featured fight indexed by publisher, series, and issue number!
You can also follow and subscribe to Secret Wars on Infinite Earths on Twitter and Facebook to get regular links to fights inspired by the topics of the day! Be sure to like, share, and retweet the best battles!
Winner: Inconclusive (Draw)
#29 (--) Thor
#426 (new) Conan The Barbarian
Where: What If? #39 When: June 1983
Why: Alan Zelenetz How: Ron Wilson
The Story So Far...
Victorious in battle with the Frost Giants of Jotunheim: Thor, God of Thunder, followed his wicked half-brother into a cavernous labyrinth. In search of the mischief-making Loki, Thor chose a path that led him backwards through time, into the realm of Troy during the Trojan War.
This was but one course of history, but what of the path not taken? In another reality, Thor chose a different tunnel, one that led him to ancient age of Hyboria! There, his memory was lost and godly powers diminished, making him prone to the wanted warrior-thief stalking Corinthia: Conan The Barbarian!
Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Thor 6 (Invincible)Intelligence: Conan 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Draw 3 (Athlete)
Stamina: Thor 6 (Generator)
Agility: Draw 2 (Average)
Fighting: Conan 7 (Living Weapon)
Energy: Thor 5 (Lasers)
Total: Thor 32 (Super)
It's a fantasy fight worthy of the greatest myths and legend! A dream battle, bridging the gulf of time and reality to pit God against Barbarian! The question is simple: What if Thor of Asgard met Conan the Cimmerian?
This is the first time we've seen Conan on The Comic Book Fight Club! His reputation precedes him, but he may not always be well represented by assumptions. Yes, Conan is a savage warrior -- but he's also a learned traveler, and incredibly canny combat strategist. Skills he'll certainly need to best a god!
Conan is stronger and more durable than most normal men, but he isn't super-human. Ordinarily that would put him at a significant disadvantage against the nigh invulnerable god of thunder, but this battle features a weakened Thor.
When Beta Ray Bill first battled the Odinson in Thor #337, he demonstrated that an evenly matched opponent could challenge Thor with pure heart and courage. Conan has plenty of both, but its unlikely the barbarian would be deemed worthy of wielding the enchanted hammer Mjolnir against Thor, as Bill was.
Mjolnir has been key to Thor winning against some other high-profile crossover opponents. The hammer's influence over lightning helped quash the pantheon of powers at Captain Marvel's disposal, in Marvel versus DC #2. He also got the drop on Superman with Mjolnir, sucker-striking him in JLA/Avengers #1!
Thor wasn't quite himself when he attacked Superman and he isn't quite himself in today's battle, either. His travel has left him weakened, but also disoriented. That could be significant, if his history with fugue states is anything to go by!
When Thor succumbed to a madness, he became a rampaging berserker who dominated many powerful challengers, including the Super-Skrull [Thor #464], and Drax The Destroyer [Warlock and The Infinity Watch #21]! There was also the Heroes Reborn pocket universe Thor, who was manipulated by Loki into fighting the entire Avengers to a standstill in Avengers (Vol.2) #1. All in all, disorientation only makes Thor a more dangerous threat. Bad news for Conan!
Conan won't hesitate to exploit Thor's apparent vulnerability, but the odds of cutting him asunder with a sword still seems remote. Without his usual strength, endurance, and command of the storm, Thor's vulnerable, but the only way we can truly know what would happen is by reading on!
The Tape: Thor Ranking: Thor (#29)
What Went Down...
Suddenly struck with an unshakeable disorientation, Thor encounters a pack of Corinthian soldiers on the hunt. Little does any of them realize, they're being watched from the mountains above by the wanted thief: Conan The Cimmerian!
A sudden hail of boulders betrays Conan's position as he uses the terrain to secure a tactical advantage against the four soldiers and Thor! The Thunderer escapes harm, but scales the mountain to confront his unseen attacker!
Conan mistakes the blonde-haired god for a contemporary of Aesir, but his lack of quarrel with those of the North doesn't interest Thor. He launches himself at the appeasing Cimmerian -- sending both tumbling down the mountain side!
The barbarian mockingly presumes madness on Thor's behalf. Only a madman would travel so far to "have his bowels carved in warmer climes!" They scramble to their feet and Conan makes the first move, aiming to oblige his new foe!
The overhead sword strike is easily blocked by Thor's hammer. He swings wildly in retaliation, completing his arc just in time to block the ducking barbarian's sword!
The verbal sparring continues as Conan swings for Thor's neck, but again strikes blade to uru metal hammer! Incensed by Conan's bravado as much as his fighting, Thor swings Mjolnir with renewed purpose - swatting the sword away!
The barbarian is disarmed, but by no means harmless! With impressive strength he hoists a massive boulder above his head and tosses it at his opponent!
Thor goes down and suffers the indignation of further taunting! Conan compares the toppled thunder god to a tortoise and stokes his godly ire! Thor leaps back to his feat and charges at Conan to grapple hand-to-hand in a test of strength!
Even with his senses dulled, Thor's godly strength is more than a match for the Cimmerian warrior. The thunderer hurls Conan wildly into surrounding rock!
The impact would devastate any ordinary man, but Conan endures, remarking in awe of the incredible strength possessed by his mysterious foe! The barbarian rises, not with aggression in his heart, but respect!
His arms hang peacefully by his sides as Conan assures Thor it is no act of treachery. With that, Thor stays his hand & hammer as well, recruited to be Conan's travelling partner. He receives a fallen Conrinthian's sword at Conan's assistance and the pair head off into a new adventure.
The Hammer...
Well, there you have it! The battle ends in a mutual ceasefire, leaving fans of each warrior to debate the merits of their combat beyond its conclusion.
There's an obvious case to be made that Thor had the advantage thanks to his superior strength. That said, Conan is also renowned for his ability to endure, and was down but far from out when Thor turned on the muscle!
Here on Secret Wars on Infinite Earths we primarily focus on the results that did happen, but if prompted to ask "What If?", I would certainly lean in favour of an eventual Thor victory. Of course, by the end of the issue, it's the weakened Thor who perishes in final battle with Stygian wizard Thoth-Amon. Not Conan!
You might scoff at the thought of Thor dying in such a way, but grim death was a traditional fixture of the What if? series, particularly into its second volume, where a 'be careful what you wish for' element to stories was common.
I was already thinking about today's battle from What If? (Vol.1) #39 thanks to the announcement that Conan The Barbarian will join the Marvel Universe in May's Savage Avengers. Imagine my surprise earlier this week when /Film also reported an animated version of What If? is in development for Disney+!
According to the story, the streaming What If? cartoon will feature branching alternate realities based on events from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. That makes it hard to imagine episodes punctuated with major hero's deaths, but you never do know! The first confirmed story will feature Loki finding the hammer of Thor, borrowing a basic concept from What If? (Vol.1) #47.
Reducing the series to Marvel's movie slate limits the scope that made What If? one of my favourite series growing up, but if it also minimizes the chance for creating cumbersome rifts within the mainstream universe. A good thing, since it's still a crapshoot whether these movies "get it right", and far too early to start subverting what's still in the process of being established.
Marvel had a library of almost two decades worth of monthly printed adventures before the concept of What If? was introduced in 1977. Even more, if you also include the Golden Age of characters like Captain America and Sub-Mariner! Granted, those stories were much less likely to be drawn from than the modern pages of the "Marvel Age", begun with 1961's Fantastic Four, who also starred in the first issue of What If?, in a reference to 1963's Amazing Spider-Man #1.
Simple ideas like Spider-man joining the Fantastic Four -- instead of being rejected -- are a lot of fun when you have a firm grasp of who the characters are. When these stories intrude upon informing an audience, that tends to erode at the core concept, damage lode baring ideas, and generally lead to sloppy and increasingly meaningless fiction.
I'm not quite sure if that's how I would view Conan The Barbarian becoming part of the Marvel Universe with Savage Avengers, but it's close.
Marvel has a long history with the pulp barbarian, who was created in 1932 for Weird Tales magazine by Robert E Howard. Marvel started publishing stories in 1970, helping usher in the modern (or bronze) age of comics. Despite all this, Conan is owned and licensed by Cabinet Entertainment -- not Marvel.
Marvel have tied some licensed characters into their shared universe before. Iron Man and SHIELD battled Godzilla. ROM Space Knight and Micronauts led superheroes and toylines to meet with some regularity, as well. Of course, in the case of ROM, I can't help but think of the years of licensing entanglements that kept collections from being reprinted. Which is one of the reasons bringing Conan into Marvel Comics proper seems like a bigger hassle than its worth.
To that point: As far as I know, "What If? Classic" collections omitted this and other issues containing Conan. That might be rectified now that the Conan license is back with Marvel, and an animated series might drive interest in reissued collections, but you need only imagine if this were a regular series to see the frustration that could lie ahead with Savage Avengers.
For my money, these type of crossovers are best released as mini-series. Isolated stories that play with the concepts, deliver dream matches, but don't overstay their welcome, damage either property, or cause long term problems.
I'm sure we'll be back to look at more from the Thor & Conan team-up. If you'd like to find more crossover dream matches, or just discover more tales from different universes - dive into the Secret Archive! There you'll find every featured fight indexed by publisher, series, and issue number!
You can also follow and subscribe to Secret Wars on Infinite Earths on Twitter and Facebook to get regular links to fights inspired by the topics of the day! Be sure to like, share, and retweet the best battles!
Winner: Inconclusive (Draw)
#29 (--) Thor
#426 (new) Conan The Barbarian
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