AVENGERS versus KANG THE CONQUEROR

First Blood (Marvel)
Where: Avengers #2 When: December 1996 Why: Rob Liefeld, Jim Valentino & Jeph Loeb How: Chap Yaep

The Story So Far...
Facing apparent death in their battle against the psionic entity called Onslaught -- The Avengers and Fantastic Four were whisked to the safety of a pocket dimension created subconsciously by naive mutant Franklin Richards.

Beginning their lives anew with no knowledge of their true history: The Avengers are founded under the direction of Nick Fury and SHIELD, to act as a global peace-keeping force against super-powered threats also newly manifesting on this Counter Earth.

Bolstered by the addition of Captain America and Thor; The Avengers are a powerful assembly whose legend will inevitably continue into the distant future. A future ruled by Kang The Conqueror, who has travelled through time to defeat history's mightiest heroes!

Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Thor 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Kang 6 (Genius)
Speed: Captain America 4 (Olympian)
Stamina: Thor 6 (Generator)
Agility: Hellcat 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting: Captain America 6 (Warrior)
Energy: Kang 5 (Lasers)
Total: Kang The Conqueror 29 (Metahuman)

The Avengers are: Captain America, Thor, Hawkeye, Vision, Swordsman, Scarlet Witch, and Hellcat.

Starting from scratch in the pocket universe -- these Avengers are still relatively new to working with each other. They just recruited Thor in the previous issue, when he saw through his brother's manipulations, and helped to defeat him.

Scarlet Witch was key to their victory, using hex powers to turn Loki's spell back against him, but it remains to be seen how her awesome magicks will affect the futuristic technology of Kang The Conqueror.

This time Kang hails from the even farther flung future of the 31st century: a variant conjured to this universe by Franklin Richards based upon his distant descendent -- the time travelling Nathaniel Richards, who is typically cited as having conquered the 30th century.

It was that Kang who deployed the Avengers to Limbo to destroy a facsimile of himself in a quest to consolidate power by eliminating all Kang variants diverging from his prime timeline. A feat achieved with advanced technology that allows him to effortlessly traverse time and space.

Kang is also outfitted in advanced armor, which grants him super-human strength and durability, gravity-defiance, defensive force-fields, and an arsenal of weaponry capable of deploying concussive blasts and other attacks.

Captain America's tactical savvy should help the team coordinate, but it's Thor who offers the most obvious counter-attack to Kang's incredibly powers.

We've seen The God of Thunder face similar versatile threats from The Mandarin, Nebula, Super-Skrull, Thanos, Juggernaut, Doctor Doom, and even DC's Superman and Captain Marvel! Will he be the difference maker? Let's find out!

The Tape: Avengers Ranking: Captain America (#7)

What Went Down...

The appearance of a massive spaceship floating over New York City prompts Director of SHIELD, Nick Fury, to activate his Avengers for a full investigation, and if necessary, neutralization of any emerging threat.

Captain America doesn't much like the cut of Fury's jib, but with Scarlet Witch and Hellcat already in the field, the team is quick to mobilize against a mysterious individual already in the process of engaging the women.

A simple gesture directs a blast of energy that engulfs Scarlet Witch and Hellcat!

The remaining Avengers arrive just in time to witness the assault. Cap discreetly makes sure Hawkeye has a clean shot, but Thor is too incensed to give the archer opportunity to strike first. Kang invites it with no clearer motive: "Your move."

The God of Thunder obliges -- tossing his mighty hammer Mjolnir!

Remarkably the weapon stalls beyond Kang's outstretched hand, igniting with sparks of electricity as it collides with a force-field surrounding him!

Captain America recognizes the danger and orders Hawkeye to try to rally Scarlet Witch to make use of her awesome magicks that stopped Loki.

Swordsman sees the need for a distraction to give Hawkeye a clear run, but his attempt to take the initiative is immediately squashed, much to Captain America's chagrin. Swords are simply no match for Kang's advanced technology!

Cap tries to restore order so the team can regroup, but Thor refuses to yield.

"Do what thou must, Captain. But, no being, mortal or god, may take the fabled Mjolnir from my side -- and not rue the day!"

The thunder god brings down the very heavens, dive bombing Kang in blaze of lightning that explodes around the force-field bubble, and rips through the surrounding earth!

The Avengers feel the fallout as Scarlet Witch does her best to shield she and Hellcat from the erupting energies. As she struggles, The Witch compels Hawkeye to help the rest of the team, even as he finds himself lacking any clear shot.

Captain America rallies Vision and Hawkeye to his side for a final stand.

Hawkeye sends the first salvo, much to Kang's amusement.

The arrow sails straight and true, inevitably striking Kang's force-field -- but this "toy" contains a thermite incendiary tip that burns through bubble and deactivates the defensive barrier!

Captain America throws his mighty shield -- knocking Kang off his feet, while Vision takes the order to glide toward the threat and neutralize it by phasing through his body to cause him discomfort -- and submission.

Alas, Kang's futuristic defenses are vast and many. Before the android can shift his density, The Conqueror orders his ship to open fire -- blasting Vision with a massive explosion!

Thor gravely returns to the battlefield, mournfully coming face to face with Kang under the belief that his new comrades have perished. He vows to avenge his fallen allies by spilling Kang's blood.

The ferocity and power of Thor's attack is enough to cause even Kang alarm.

He desperately calls for assistance from his ship as Thor rains down bareknuckle blows against his restored force-field!

A beam of energy blasts Thor from behind and surrounds him in another bubble that is dragged towards the ship. A futuristic assault that allows Kang The Conqueror to claim the thunder god as trophy in victory.

The Hammer...

Remembering that Kang featured prominently in this issue, I figured it might be fun to go back to Heroes Reborn to take a fresh look. After all, he's given pride of place as the first real threat to the pocket universe's fully formed Avengers, after they were deployed to Norway, and recruited Thor from the side of Loki.

Some of Heroes Reborn reads like a prototype version of Ultimate Marvel, and I guess that includes the highs and lows, as Kang The Conqueror is reduced to a far less interesting villain, coming from the distant future of the 31st century for the expressed purpose of impressing Mantis by beating up history's famed Avengers and nothing much more.

It's kind of a weirdly underwhelming take on what could've been a very unique and interesting villain. One whose status outside the present-day Marvel Universe could've allowed Kang full knowledge of the battle with Onslaught, and the false new reality that was created to contain the heroes.

There doesn't appear to be any acknowledgement of the fact that Loki was accidentally sent to Limbo in the prior issue. A domain notably claimed by Kang The Conqueror in past issues of Avengers, and a natural means for alerting him to the existence of the Heroes Reborn universe.

Kang might've used his unique awareness to attempt to conquer this world and use it for his own ends -- or perhaps escape it, having been accidentally caught by Franklin Richards while travelling from the future, rather than simply being a facsimile created within the world to occupy the heroes before their return.

In that situation Kang could've been key to unravelling the mystery of this new reality, investigating the lost history of The Avengers and Fantastic Four. He could've been a pivotal figure in the whole affair! Granted, that was a role reserved for Doctor Doom, and Kang probably didn't quite have the cachet to demand that level of attention at the time. That wouldn't come until a few years later when Kurt Busiek devises the epic Kang Dynasty -- a year-long story that put Kang back on top with his conquest of the present day.

Exactly how much clarity or planning was going into the pages of Heroes Reborn's Avengers Volume 2 is not evident, and difficult to gauge.

Three hands in writing might not have helped artist Chap Yaep, whose pencils are frustratingly unfocused throughout the battle of Avengers #2. His staging too often centers around unimportant aspects of subject matter, passing up opportunities for dynamic narrative shots of characters in action, in favour of messy layouts filled with dead space, awkward zooming, literal voids, and splashes of relative inaction.

Layouts are unmistakably Liefeldian, but storytelling particularly dips here, held together by script and/or dialogue credited to Jim Valentino (script), and Jeph Loeb (dialogue), respectively. Without their words scenes become less clear.

As I recall, things settle down in the next issue, and continue to improve when Ian Churchill joins the team in Avengers #4. Even so, it isn't wildly surprising that Marvel chose to sever ties mid-series with the Rob Liefeld portion of their Image-produced Heroes Reborn titles. There is an unmistakable air of chaos and waste. A sense of carelessness, and things just barely being held together by a ballooning creative team.

The editorial shakeup reportedly happened at issue #6, and will become evident in credits for Avengers #8, when Walt Simonson formally takes over writing duties, introducing a second contrary Thor to the equation, and generally restoring more normalcy to the Avengers and their portrayals ahead of their imminent repatriation to the main universe in Heroes Reborn: The Return.

The second Thor highlights the potential complication the Heroes Reborn universe adds to our rankings, but per the rules of alternate realities, we consider these to be off-shoots connected to the main character, unless otherwise stated.

No doubt we'll return to explore more from Heroes Reborn some time in the future, as well as more from Kang The Conqueror. If you'd like to see those things and more you should follow links to topics throughout this post -- or check out the Secret Archive for a complete index of featured fights in order of publisher, series, and issue number.

Secret Wars on Infinite Earths has featured well over 700 battles and ranked more than 1,000 iconic characters! You can make sure there are many more to come by becoming a supporter on Patreon. As a thank you for your patronage you'll find additional updates and multiple tiers to sponsor more feature content.

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Winner: Kang The Conqueror
#420 (+564) Kang The Conqueror
#7 (--) Captain America
#17 (--) Thor
#90 (--) Hawkeye
#125 (-20) Hellcat
#155 (-7) Vision
#441 (-1) Scarlet Witch
#991 (-336) Swordsman

DEADPOOL versus CABLE

The Beginning of The End: Part One (Marvel)
Where: New Mutants #98 When: February 1991
Why: Rob Liefeld & Fabian Nicieza How: Rob Liefeld

The Story So Far...
The time-travelling soldier known as Cable has come to the present to guide the development of a young mutant he believes will play a vital role in future events. As a guest of Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters, Cable assumes the role of mentor for their newest mutants, training them in the hard truths of war.

 After working up a sweat training in the Danger Room with Cannonball; Cable retires to the school library where he soon finds himself under attack! You don't get to be a mysterious man of intrigue like Cable without making a few enemies! The mysterious Mr. Tolliver has a vested interest in Cable and he's willing to pay big money to see him hurt! Enter the mercenary killer Deadpool, who has a contract for Cable's head!

Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Cable 4 (Enhanced)
Intelligence: Cable 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Deadpool 3 (Athlete)
Stamina: Deadpool 5 (Marathoner)
Agility: Deadpool 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting: Draw 4 (Trained)
Energy: Draw 4 (Arsenal)
Total: Deadpool 26 (Meta-human)

Deadpool Facts:
As featured on card #178 in Marvel Universe Series IV's Famous Battles!

It's one of the great love-hate relationships in comics and it's finally here on Secret Wars on Infinite Earths! The frenemy rivalry begins here with the first appearance of one of Marvel's biggest icons! Welcome back jerks who just click links when a movie tickles their interest. It's show time!

Deadpool is the Merc' with a Mouth who needs no introduction! His services are available to the highest bidder -- at least until a chance meeting with wealthy businessman Edward Lewis! Edward paid to outfit Deadpool with a new uniform, and after taking the mercenary to see La Traviata at the opera, Deadpool falls madly in love with him. DP breaks his "no kissing rule", but the two soon break up, because Edward is not Deadpool's time travelling knight.

That honor belongs to Nathanial Summers - the cyborg from the future called Cable! As the name might suggest, he's the son of Cyclops and Jean Grey, who was dropped off in the distant future to be raised in a time when every child was left behind! You know him as a pocket wearing, giant gun-toting bad ass with a metal arm, but he's also gifted with mutant telekinetic powers he uses to hold his techno-organic virus at bay, and occasionally levitate stuff and bend spoons!

Cable's from the far flung future, so it kinda makes sense our file on him isn't huge. We know he's got the goods to beat-up a turkey at short notice. We saw him team with Captain America in an accidental dimension jump, taking down MODOK & AIM in Captain America (Vol.2) #6! He also grappled with his nemesis from the future, Ahab, in X-Men Annual #14. Emotions got the better of Cable in that fight and he was outwitted by the powerful cyborg!

Of course, Deadpool's no slouch when it comes to taking down cyborgs! Smarts helped him overcome arch-nemesis Ajax in a raw final showdown [in Deadpool #19]! He also punked out the well kitted Taskmaster not once - but twice [Deadpool #2, Cable & Deadpool #36]! Who looks foolish now?! Well...

We've also seen Punisher use his arsenal of tricks to flash fry Deadpool in the mini-series Deadpool: Suicide Kings #2! His best efforts didn't leave a scratch on Juggernaut back in Deadpool: Sins of the Past #2! And everybody looks just a little stupid beating up Batroc The Leaper in a hotel room [Deadpool #20].

We know fighters with healing factors are always prone to a beat down, but when Deadpool's all-business he's a legitimately deadly mercenary. With guns, swords, speed and agility focused on the objective - can take on the Hulk and live to tell about it [Deadpool #4]! Mr. Lewis Mr. Tolliver doesn't like to be kept waiting. Let's just see who takes the famous first fight!

The Tape: Deadpool Ranking: Deadpool (#20)

What Went Down...
Xavier's School for Gift Youngsters, Westchester, 14:51. Cable retreats to the library for some light reading. He swears he's just interested in the articles, but we dig. Without warning -- the "bwompoom" of unexpected teleportation!

Cable falls flat on his ass as he's confronted with the arrival of Deadpool! The merc's been hired by the elusive Mr. Tolliver. Seems he wants Cable found - and killed! Cable says it's no hard feelings, but y'know. Mr. "Articles" over here.

Deadpool draws his gun and sends regards from his employer. Cable and Tollivar don't see their history the same way, but it hardly matters. Deadpool's ready to shoot -- if only Cannonball didn't swoop in from behind for the save!

Apparently the kid's head of the class when it comes to keep his mutant rocket powers running silent. Too bad for him Deadpool's well prepared, tossing a neural disrupted net that wraps Cannonball up nice, tight, and incapacitated!

Cannonball hits the deck hard -- but not as hard as Cable hits when he takes advantage of the distraction and smacks Deadpool in the face! He throws a second punch with his cyborg arm, scoring a "krak" from the impact!

Seems Deadpool's jaw broke, but he keeps the chatter coming. He throws a fancy free quip and a dagger that buries itself in Cable's leg. Ouchy!

Cable goes down and Deadpool once again moves in for the kill - only to be interrupted by one of those meddling kids and their stupid mutant power! This time it's Rictor, who sends a tremor right through the mercenary's path!

DP keeps his feet and identifies three junior targets: Rictor, Sunspot, and Boom Boom. All students at Xavier's school who've fallen under Cable's bad influence.

Knowing his enemies, Deadpool neutralizes Rictor's unpredictable vibration powers first with wires designed to contract the more he tries to shake them off!

Hothead Sunspot is next by request, but Deadpool's counting on the kid's arrogance to leave him wide open. Super-strength isn't always the solution, he says, espousing the virtues of finesse and subtlety as he draws three blades -- only to suddenly succumb to three in his own back!

It seems Cable put a call into an old acquaintance goes by the name of Domino. She's new in these parts, but arrived right on time - just like always. Oh, yeah. Just one catch: She ain't the real Domino. Not so lucky after all, Cable.

The Hammer...
It was a fight that had it all! Guns! Action! Youthful disobedience! Futuristic tactical weaponry! Action movie dialogue! Feet!

One thing it didn't have is Domino! The woman who sure could win the lookalike contest is actually shape-shifting mercenary Copycat! It turns out Mister Tolliver hired her to infiltrate Cable's mutant cadre to spy on him, in what was apparently a needlessly complicated double-bluff that involved knifing Deadpool in the back.

Worse still: Copycat is Vanessa Carlysle -- Deadpool's former girlfriend who he broke up with when he found out he had cancer!

I guess it's a story as old as time: Boy meets girl. Boy gets cancer and loses girl. Boy survives cancer via hideously disfiguring, life-altering experiments. Boy becomes mutant mercenary. Girl becomes mutant mercenary. Girl stabs boy repeatedly in the back. It's young love and we've all been there!

If you're one of those jerks who only reads about comics to pretend to your friends you know all about the characters in movies, you know a version of Copycat portrayed by Morena Baccarin. You're about to know Domino better, too, because Deadpool 2 is bigger, badder, and in theatres May 18th!

She isn't exactly comic book Domino either, but who really is? Well, the real Domino is, obviously... She eventually showed up for realsies a year later in X-Force #8. She became a recurring character in that book, developing into a far more integral part of X-lore than Copycat. That's called living well and finding success, which is really the best form of revenge.

If you really had your heart set on seeing Domino in action, I can offer you Contest of Champions II #1, where she kicked Iron Man in the head. If you stick around, we might have something fun coming up next week, too. I dunno! I don't have magical mutant luck powers! [Note: Domino does].

We've kind of buried the lede here, because if you've heard of New Mutants #98, it's undoubtedly because it's the first appearance of Deadpool!

Not exactly the fourth-wall breaking, madcap mercenary he'll become, but the groundwork of an interesting character is quickly laid. Liefeld leads with a strong visual distinct from some of his other characters. The story goes he wanted to draw a gun-toting, edgy kinda Spider-man. It doesn't sound like a great pitch, but it works! There's a simple cool factor to the design, and introductory fight that sets the table for what we know comes in the years that follow!

It might've been even better if the Copycat/Domino plot wasn't heaped on as well, but he had the better of Cable throughout, and that created intrigue. The layouts get a little sketchy, and story always seems to be vague and chaotic when Liefeld's around.

My previously established childhood bias against kid-heroes kept me pretty well away from New Mutants and X-Force, but Deadpool caught my eye like a lot of others! There was just something there. It was X-Men, iconic super-heroes, with something a little bit different. Once the Weapon X connection was established, that sure couldn't have hurt, either.

Today, I'd equate the added flavor to Larry Hama's GI Joe, or Ostrander's Suicide Squad. Vivid, cool looking characters with key weaponry, skills and objectives, entering into a world that completes them. It can fly off the rails pretty easily, and in the X-books it often did, but when it's good it's great!

As always - you can get a better impression of what I'm talking about by checking out the story for yourself! Shopping via the Amazon link provided will get you a fine collected edition - and support the site at no extra cost to you!

Dive into the Secret Archive to uncover more fights like this one, or follow links scattered throughout this post. You never know what you'll find! You can also follow Secret Wars on Infinite Earths on Twitter and Facebook for daily links to fights inspired by the topics of the day!

Fans of the Fight Club Rankings can look below to feast of fresh controversy! For her obvious role in finishing the battle, Copycat collects the win stat. Cable and the intervening New Mutants will all pick up assists -- even Sunspot and Boom Boom, who did technically provide the distraction that set Deadpool up to get knifed!

Winner(s): Copycat (w/ Cable, Cannonball & Rictor)
#311 (new) Copycat (aka; Domino)
#20 (--) Deadpool
#107 (+4) Cable [+1 assist]
#139 (+2) Boom Boom [+1 assist]
#143 (+19) Sunspot [+1 assist]
#318 (+5) Cannonball [+1 assist]
#533 (new) Rictor [+1 assist]

QUICK FIX: CAPTAIN AMERICA vs NAZI GOONS
Courage (Marvel)
Where: Captain America #1 When: November 1996
Why: Rob Liefeld & Jeph Loeb [w/ Chuck Dixon]
How: Rob Liefeld

THE TAPE...
Strength: Capt. America 3 (Athlete)
Intelligence: Capt. America 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Capt. America 4 (Olympian)
Stamina: Capt. America 5 (Marathon)
Agility: Capt. America 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting: Capt. America 6 (Warrior)
Energy: Capt. America 2 (Projectile)

Math: Captain America
Ranking: Captain America (#7)

THE FIX...
'It's the content we produce.' 'We don't have to go around shitting on other people's content...'

This just happened to be the quote uttered as I was writing this paragraph -- one of over two hours worth of irony completely lost on the hosts of The Mighty Sabo And Son podcast as they lured and lambasted a blog prankster, this week. Unfortunately, they do not have a website that I can find and link, but if they did, I'm not entirely sure I would want to.

This is a pretty unusual way to open an entry on what is usually a comics review and discussion site centred around the conflicts of superheroes and villains. This year in particular we've been more about the comics than the subjects surrounding them, but I was so stunned by the Sabo podcast, I felt it worth discussing.

The controversy started with a prank pulled on Rob Liefeld, but let's go further back -- to the comics.

Superheroes and the medium of comics is arguably more in the public eye than ever. Films like The Dark Knight, Spider-man, Watchmen, and Iron Man, have all exposed a mainstream audience to the best things the medium and genres have to offer. Despite this prominent exposure, sales in the direct comics market are less than impressive, particularly when you compare them to the heady glory of the late eighties and early nineties. During that period, books were canceled for bottoming out with sales figures upwards of three times their current numbers.

During this period, visuals were king, and it was the images of Todd McFarlane, Erik Larsen, Jim Lee, Marc Silvestri, and Rob Liefeld that produced these unrivaled sales figures. Together, along with Jim Valentino and Whilce Portacio, they broke away from their success at Marvel to create their own publishing entity, Image Comics, founded on a principle of creative ownership and rights for artists.

Keen to get a slice of the action, the Marvel administration of 1996 were able to lure back some of their prodigal sons, namely Liefeld, Lee, and Portacio, all to be part of a complete reinvention of their lagging icons. Heroes Reborn was the result, created out of an X-Men storyline that pitted them against uber-villain, Onslaught, whose destruction coincided with the creation of a pocket universe where the Fantastic Four and Avengers were to be reinvented with a modern interpretation -- a precursor to the Ultimate line, which did much the same.

The legacy of Image Comics remains a vital component of the creative landscape for the medium, providing a marketing support network and creative platform for writers and artists establishing themselves in the industry. This is in contrast to the legacy of the first comics produced by Image, which remain infamous points of contention for comics art enthusiasts and online jokesters.

Liefeld in particular has been the subject of much ridicule, his bombastic art style lampooned and commentated upon consistently since the era. Despite his many successes at the time, which included massive sales and mainstream attention (he even appeared in Levi adverts), he remains widely known for idiosyncracies of his art, and accusations of plagiarism and misconduct.

This twenty-year history was the premise for a prank pulled by Ryan Coons, aka; The Yellow Hat Guy, at a recent WizardWorld convention.
Coons approached Liefeld while he was sketching at a floor table, dispensed nervous pleasantries, and then requested an apology for the 1997 Heroes Reborn: Captain America series (featured in this article).

It was a fairly tactless and unremarkable act, but according to all accounts, was brief, and well ignored by the drawing artist. Coons returned some time later to deliver a bagged and personzlied copy of the iconic reference manual, How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way.

The humorous stunt was documented by a nervous Coons and his pals, made public later, with photographs and video, on his blog; Avengers Avenged.

The stunt has since seemingly attracted the attentions of a who's who of the comics industry, earning denouncements and harsh criticism from the likes of; Skottie Young, Cameron Stewart, Cully Hamner, Pia Guerra, Jamal Igle, Ron Marz, and Ethan Van Sciver. Their opinions, along with many others, have been scathing, with many choosing to interpret it as a personal attack on Liefeld and the fan-friendly institution of comics conventions.

Personally, I think this response is absurd.

To the rights and morals of the issue, this was a fairly harmless prank.
According to all reports; Coons took very little of Liefeld's time, and while the artist might not have been especially pleased with the inference, he handled it quickly and well. As a public figure, he's ripe for lampooning, and Coons wasn't particularly out of line in making statements dependent solely on Liefeld's art.

There may be an argument that criticism and jokes are taken personally, and that this wasn't the best use of the accessibility afforded to fans at a convention, but at the end of the day, the common good was not violated, nor was Liefeld.

As a humorous blog post, the stunt was not only amusing (if unoriginal), but also far more harmless than many mainstream parody outlets. This didn't really go any further than anything I'm sure many of the harsh critics have themselves laughed at until hoarse. Those offended by the "cowardice" of leaving after the stunt, might consider that this was an efficient and unintrusive method of making the gag and leaving Mr. Liefeld to his day. Likewise, without this unfounded outrage, the controversy would not have been terribly intrusive to Liefeld's online movements -- and is still far from the worst the artist will ever get from geeks.

These opinions leveled at Ryan Coons may have been harsh and ill conceived, but the situation escalated to a completely unacceptable level on the podcast mentioned in the opening lines of this post.

Mark Brooks, Mark Walters, Lee Duhig, Scott Kurtz, Tim Fischer, and Freddie Avalos, were the line-up that appeared on the episode of The Mighty Sabo and Son, which at best, could be described as a juvenile and unsophisticated discussion forum for topical events.

Through the course of their six hour marathon, the chatting personalities arrived at the topic of Ryan Coons' stunt, beginning with similar sentiments to some of the comments made on the original blog. Thier purile bravado escalated far beyond disapproving conversation, however, after first recruiting Rob Liefeld for a more subdued portion of the case, before Coons himself called in for a grilling.

What ensued I can only describe as absolutely disgusting.

I personally fail to see how an intelligent individual could legitimately be morally outraged by the stunt pulled by Coons and his pals. Intelligence and morals were clearly never an issue on the podcast, however, as the group subjected Coons to what I would not at all lightly refer to as -- abuse.

For well over an hour, if not two, this young man was subjected to a completely misproportionate level of disdain. Throughout the course of the conversation he was viciously and personally attacked by the group, who took on an adolescent mob-like aggression. Any information volunteered by the blogger was quickly wielded for cutting personal insults by a group mystifyingly ignorant to irony of their merciless abuse in defense of a man they claim had been "dehumanized" (sic) by the convention gag.

Few of the vile isms levelled by the group could escape this irony, most, if not all, just as easily turned around back on the group for their own disgusting real-time behaviour. As they incited violence against the prankster, made references to hopes for his death, and unleashed a disgusting quantity and quality of abuse upon the young man, they undermined the few ultimately insincere references to repentence or perspective, let alone legitimacy to any argument against the prank.

I really cannot adequately describe my disgust for what has unfolded.
I consder myself a strong advocate of freedom to speech and strong opinion, but this was far beyond anything subscribing to those ideals. This was a young man -- who has copped a lot of dubious criticism for an ultimately silly joke -- fronting up to the opportunity to answer and accept his critics, only to be abused by men who had intimidation in numbers, and perceived authority. Unfortunately, they were too disorganized to make specific identification easy, but Scott Kurtz and Mark Brooks, artists who've been published by Image and Marvel respectively, completely abused any position of perceived authority their status brings with it.

Ryan Coons was inarticulate in his defense, either by nature, or by the opposition of numbers and volume that surely intimidated him. One call-in who attempted to offer support for the prankster was promptly muted by the controlling group, obliterating any chance of perspective interfering in this verbal lynching.
As flawed and immature as some of Coons arguments might have been, they were not nearly the embarrassment this self-righteous collective of ignorant fools positioned themselves to be.

Coons did not do well to defend himself as a blogger (or humorist) while the pack questioned his right to be so critical of Liefeld's work. He was unable to reflect upon the hours of verbal abuse directed at him when they accused him of having an agenda to dehumanize Liefeld. He did not reiterate that he himself is as open to criticism in the public domain as Liefeld. He never attacked their motivations for sensational gratifaction, while they accused him of pulling the stunt for hits.

For whatever reason, Coons sat and took every bit of unreasonable abuse leveled at him by these posturing imbeciles currently working in the industry.

I'm writing this as a person who has been on all sides of this argument.
I've experienced how fickle fans and creators can be. I've produced creative work as a critic, commentator, and writer, and would like to attain a higher role in any of these fields. I do these things very aware of the scrutiny I'm putting myself under. As much as I've dealt with my fair share of unpleasant opinions from both fans and creators, I've been fortunate enough to not incite such a response. I shudder to think how Mr. Kurtz and his gang might receive this blog, should it come to their attentions. I wonder what methods of torture or death they might wish upon me, or if I might be exempt for the many undertakings I've ventured in ten years of very public, if obscure, online projects.

Unfortunately, as many of us have found, and as was vividly displayed in this situation, the comics industry isn't terribly accountable. For whatever reason, there are a lot of undesirable personality types involved, with a lot of fickle and unreasonable attitudes condemning many individuals who attempt to enter the ranks. Coons has apparently been blacklisted by the union of individuals that even included a representative of Wizard Magazine, Mark Allen Haverty.

In this case, Ryan Coons has been unlucky enough to suffer the collective ire of people who have not apparently paused to consider the broad perspective of the issue. He has been made accountable, where these disgusting podcasters will likely not be. In fact, bizarrely, the cult of these men might actually grow thanks to the same anonymity and online bravado that created this situation.

EDIT: Personal attacks have gone far beyond Ryan Coon's website, further emphasising how inappropriate the current course of action has been. I don't see how anyone could honestly describe his prank as unreasonably malicious, but the same simply cannot be said of the reaction of those outraged.

I don't know what punishment I would claim fitting for these podcasters.
Other industries show a precedent of canceling their endorsements for these types of outrageous incidents, but I just can't see Image or Marvel becoming involved. I honestly cannot describe how disgusted I am by the three hours of listening they have prepared for download, and am not even sure if effectively blacklisting them is a suitable answer, either. I just hope, with cooler heads prevailing, readers and the men themselves can reflect upon "The Mighty Sabo" without the tolerance afforded by pubescent online bravado, and recognise that it is now them who owe a very public and very sincere apology.

It would seem like an unfortunate parody to press this very serious discussion up against a review of a Captain America comic. Given the strong ideals that Captain America represents, it might not be entirely inappropriate, but I'm just not in the mood right now.

As you've seen from the usual panels littered throughout this post, the first issue of the Heroes Reborn Captain America series features an exciting and idealistically driven battle between Steve Rogers and the Nazi henchman of Master Man and Red Skull.

The villains want Captain America and his shield, but Steve Rogers has no memory of his heroic past, having lived multiple lives under the watchful eye of SHIELD and their mind-wiping technology. Like scenes from Total Recall, the unassuming laboror is confronted with his secret past by Abe Wilson -- Heroes Reborn father to the hero of our universe known as Falcon. When Abe finally convinces Rogers of his past, the Nazi bad guys destroy his house, and kill him.

Cap escapes the rubble to battle the bad guys to a successful triumph.
To read more about the Heroes Reborn universe, I'm sure you'll find information by following links in this post, or checking out other great websites. Some of the Heroes Reborn material has been collected, but I feel it would be inappropriate to include specific purchase links in this post, as we normally would.

The Fight: 5 The Issue: 4.5
Winner: Captain America

If you have opinions on the subject discussed today and wish to comment, I would suggest you refer to the original blog of the matter. I'm sure any support or disagreements you have with the situation would be better channelled there. I would also request that you try to remain civil, regardless of your position. This has become a very ugly storm in a tea cup, and while I feel I'm commentating on important details, I do not wish to escalate the situation unduly. That might be an ironic statement given the strength of my assessments, but it is sincere.

This blog was written August 15, but inserted into the usual Infinite Wars review schedule, which is currently two months behind.

You can also find Yellow Hat Guy's response to the furor on his blog and distribute comments there. In his podcast appearance, he apologised for potentially making Rob Liefeld feel unsafe, and takes his foot of the gas somewhat with the post. I believe he was quite probably brow beaten into doing this, and hope he can remain safe and healthy after this.

I'd also direct any undecided readers to an exceptionally well and calmly written blog on Destroy the Cyb.org, offering additional perspective for the posse that's formed around the event, and the thoroughly mild circumstances of the prank. It's a great overview of the point, much less specific in reference than mine.

THOR versus HULK
"... Let no man tear asunder!" (Marvel comics)
Where: Avengers #5 When: March 1997
Why: Rob Liefeld & Jeph Loeb How: Rob Liefeld & Ian Churchill

The story so far...
Trapped in a pocket dimension created instinctively by the powerful son of Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman; the world's greatest heroes are reborn in new lives in the wake of the epic battle with the creature called Onslaught!

As though destined to relive key events in their lives, Bruce Banner is again exposed to a massive dose of gamma radiation, turning him into the incredible Hulk.

A mindless and rage-filled beast, the Hulk seeks the one opponent he can never reach: Bruce Banner! Following beacons of Banner's work, the Hulk charges Avengers Island where a live gamma reactor core is housed. Having demolished much of the building and the few attending Avengers themselves, Hulk stands supreme, but a certain thunder gods would have words with him...

Previous Form:
Thor (#13): Aided the Avengers in the defeat of his half-brother, Loki.
Hulk (#6): Defeated a trio of Avengers during a Banner-seeking rampage.

Tale of the tape...
Strength: Draw 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Thor 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Draw 3 (Athlete)
Stamina: Draw 6 (Generator)
Agility: Draw 2 (Average)
Fighting Ability: Draw 6 (Warrior)
Energy Powers: Thor 5 (Lasers)


There's just something about those epic superhero encounters that hit the money every time. Hulk has memorable feuds with many of Marvel's heaviest hitting heroes, and while this isn't the first that comes to my mind, I cannot deny the intrigue presented by pitting a god of men, against man's greatest rages unleashed.

These days Hulk's gotten pretty savvy when it comes to combat strategy, but ten years ago we were still back in the angry, fight-on-instinct days of Hulk. My, how innocent we were. We never even imagined a gladiatorially baptised Hulk!

Traditionally Thor isn't exactly a rocket scientist, but I like to think of him as a battle-wary warrior, and potential successor to the wise father, Odin. So, from that perspective, I like to think there's a bit more to his strategy than disarming foes with his silly-speak, before going to town with the hammer. From that perspective, in 1997, Thor should have the edge.

We've heard it time and time before: Hulk is strongest one there is.
It might not be the whole truth, but it's always worth considering. Hulk's strength fluctuates far enough that, under the right circumstances, he can overpower even a god, however I'm not generally one who subscribes to the theory that Hulk is an endless perpetual generator of physical energy.

For that reason, I'm going to go with Thor, because I'd like to think that a god is distinguished by his endurance and sheer power. Granted, not every god is going to have super strength, but Thor's a warrior god. He should be able to handle the Hulk at least four days of the week.

The Math: Thor (Super Class)
The Pick: Thor (The numbers don't like, do they...?)

What went down...
Still searching for Banner, amidst the broken bodies of Captain America, Swordsman and Hawkeye [see; Avengers #4], Hulk finds instead a hammer-wielding god of thunder and lightning, descending to rain a world of pain upon him for daring to strike down his fellows.

Hulk isn't having a bar of it, declaring a child-like manifesto based on his own terms, but Thor's will is not easily swayed. With his hammer Mjolnir in hand, Thor swats what he assumes is a troll with force enough to send the Hulk flying through several adjacent walls!

Thor continues to open up with Mjolnir, completely controlling Hulk with thundering blows until -- "no." Having had his fill of tasty hammer treats, Hulk recovers from the initial impact of the flurry enough to stall the hammer in mid-swing.

With his barings about him once more, Hulk locks up with Thor, doing his best to wrestle the enchanted Mjolnir away from his mighty grip!

Not having much luck breaking the bond of hammer and master, Hulk uses his impressive strength to release his frustration by vaulting Thor into the air with an incredible swing. Thor, losing the battles of wills, lands on his back, but before Hulk can celebrate he's pulled to the ground by the hammer's enchantments.

The Hulk distracts himself with intent to pick the hammer up, burning into a furious rage over the defiance of the inanimate object.

Shaken, Thor is able to summon Mjolnir to his possession once again, leaping back into the fray with the fury of the heavens themselves. Lightning fills the Avengers headquarters as Thor commands a strike at the Hulk.

With the jade giant out of his way, Thor goes about feverishly clearing wreckage to free the mortals he had become so attached to. He discovers Captain America's shield and limp hand when a green finger taps him on the shoulder.

The two powers demolish further areas of the structure as Hulk proves unrelenting in his desire to prove superiority. Believing the hammer to be Thor's strength, Hulk battles Thor through the halls, moving further away still.

Thor delivers a two-fisted Polish hammer, knocking Hulk into Hank Pym's science laboratory where the damaged body of Vision lies motionless -- a witness to this epic clash of titans.

With Hulk on the back foot, Thor delivers a three-hit combination that would have obliterated any normal human being. The gamma-irradiated Hulk continues to take further punishment, suffering a diving attack before falling victim to a stiff right to the jaw that snaps his bulging head back. Finally, Hulk shows sign of fatigue.

"S-stop." "Thou art mad."
Ignoring Hulk's pleas, Thor prepares to strike once more, but finds his hand caught in mid-air. With a sly grin Hulk agrees, "Hulk is mad. Very mad."

With dramatic poignancy, Hulk gathers his power for a single blow that sends the thunder god airborne. He snatches Thor out of the air by the hair, and thumps once more with a face-breaking blow, before pounding the Avenger into the concrete foundation of the building with explosive results.

Lifting his body in triumph, Hulk bares witness to a Norse god - defeated.

The hammer...
Working his way through the entire team, Hulk wins again!
You can also find the beginning of Hulk's rampaging path, where he was unable to take down Avengers stalwart, Iron Man. [Iron Man #2]

Hulk has, of course, asserted his dominance on Secret Earths like many other sites because of the explosive release of World War Hulk. If I were a betting man, I'd think about putting some moolah down on the exact opposite result to help wind down the Hulk's returning conquests depicted in the event.

The conclusion seems to be the source of much speculation, with the broad expectation being a begrudging truce between Hulk and other heroes, perhaps in the face of a new threat. (Skrulls, maybe?...)

We almost certainly have to accept that scalps taken by Hulk and his fellows will be minimal. Events of this nature inevitably have their sacrificial lambs, and from what we've seen it seems like Black Bolt may represent the most prominent of those, with perhaps this series Black Goliath yet to come.

If the alternative to a truce were to occur, and Hulk were to be put down by one of the heroes, the returning Thor is probably the best bet. Not only does Thor have the muscle to do the job, he also has many miles to go to reintroduce himself to the Marvel universe, after several years absent as a result of the Ragnarok storyline; detailing the cyclical demise of the gods.

We saw Thor's intervention in Civil War, where a cyborg Thor clone, created by Reed Richards and Iron Man, ran amok. As resulting in the afforementioned death of the giant-sized hero, Black Goliath.

In an abstract way, Thor now has the duty of making up for this injustice undertaken in his name. Few ways to reaffirm his presence in the Marvel universe would be more impressive than by returning to defeat the Hulk, who currently stands poised to threaten the entire United States, if not the globe.

Of course, that still poses a question for the future of the Hulk.
In this new tactical guise, the Hulk may finally be on the evolutionary path to becoming his future counterpart, the Maestro. Hulk may fulfill the destiny to become one of Earth's greatest villains, or perhaps Earth isn't even part of the equation.

Hulk found a sense of belonging after being shot into space by Tony Stark and the Illuminati. Veering off course led Hulk on an unlikely path that recast him as hero, and partner and father to a family, whose deaths motivate his attack on Earth. Could the stars provide a new home for the Hulk?

I guess we haven't even considered the Sentry, who has previously been seen to nullify the Hulk's rages. Then again, the implications of that come more from the irrational cycle of anger Hulk has traditionally felt, rather than the motivated and calculated attack we're seeing today.

It'll be two more issues before we know the Hulk's final fate, but if this issue's review has been any indicator, one thing is for certain: There's still much smashing to be done before World War Hulk is through!

With that, it's been a long week! For perhaps the first time ever we've delivered a battle for every day of the working week. If you don't mind, I'm going to go soak my fists in some ice! What do you people want from me?! Get off my lawn! Go read some of the archives, ya mooching yancys!

EXTRA: Forsooth! You can find more punches, kicks and licks across the bloggerverse via Bahlactus and his Friday Night Fights! Have at thee, noble mortals!

The Fight: 4.5 The Issue: 3.5
[Almost an entire issue dedicated to a fight, which consists of far too many splash shots and ill-defined scenes to be overly commended. Also sports one of the dullest covers going around, but a fun piece of a larger puzzle.]

HULK versus THE AVENGERS
"That which gods have joined together..."
(Marvel comics)
Where: Avengers #4 When: February 1997
Why: Rob Liefeld & Jeph Loeb How: Chap Yaep & Ian Churchill

The story so far...
Believed dead, the Avengers and Fantastic Four survive their battle with Onslaught when Franklin Richards whisks them away to a pocket dimension of his own creation, housed within the tiny avatar of a blue ball.

Within this dimension the heroes are reborn, as though their fates were predetermined to play out again as destiny decided them. For Bruce Banner, his transformation into the Hulk begins again as he falls victim to a terrorist attack on one of Tony Stark's gamma nuclear bases, which exposes him to massive amounts of radiation.

Intent on destroying Dr. Banner, the Hulk survives a battle with Iron Man and begins his trek toward any totem that might signify his other. Attracted to a similar nuclear power source on Avengers Island, the Hulk finds his next battle with the few stationary members of Earth's mightiest heroes!

Previous Form:
Captain America (#5): Overcame powerhouse Mr. Hyde with Batroc the Leaper.
Hawkeye (#95): Supported the Avengers on several adventures.
Swordsman (#25): Holds a solo victory over the Hulk, as Deadpool.
Hulk (#9): Holds a solo victory over the assemblage of the Thunderbolts.

Tale of the tape...
Strength: Hulk 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Captain America 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Captain America 4 (Olympian)
Stamina: Hulk 6 (Generator)
Agility: Captain America 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting Ability: Hulk 6 (Warrior)
Energy Powers: Hawkeye 4 (Arsenal)


Okay, so we could sit and sulk about the fact that I'm the only blog in the universe not reviewing World War Hulk -- or, we could have ourselves our own little World War Hulk with what little we have. Yes. That's it.

So, if you were with us but a week ago you might have seen this coming.
It's there that you can figure out why Deadpool is listed in this clash, because damned if I'm going through all of that again. [Avengers #1]

Suffice to say that the Avengers are in a bit of bother in this particular case.
If you've hit up Avengers #1 just now, you'll be skimming over the entry that features a collection of Avengers facing off, for a time, against Thor, and doing so just barely. It was only Loki's sinister schemes that turned the battle in the Avengers' favour, otherwise they were up the proverbial creek without a Scramjet.

That team included Vision, Scarlet Witch and Hellcat, all of which are absent at this particular junction. Vision is out of action as per battle with Kang, and Scarlet Witch is busy falling into Loki and the Enchantress' web of deceit.

Hulk is strongest one there is.
It might not always be true, but nine times out of ten when Hulk walks into a building and says this, he's going to be right. This particular building, Avengers Island HQ, is no exception. Hulk is strongest one there is, and Hulk is mad.

The Avengers have the homeground advantage, but when the Hulk is ripping your hi-tech headquarters down around you, that can be more of a problem than an advantage -- especially when your headquarters houses a nuclear reactor core.
Oops! You can just bet a SHIELD architect is slapping himself over that faux pas. Nuclear Fission is so six months ago.

Swordsman, this world's counterpart of Wade Wilson, is decidedly less skilled (and wacky) than his usual counterpart. He and Hawkeye managed to be the only ineffective members of the team during the battle with Thor and Loki, no mean feat on a team with timid Scarlet Witch-classic, and hairy Hellcat.

Captain America is always the X-factor, but alone with his knuckleheaded allies, even Cap might not be able to overcome the overwhelming odds of a rampaging, butt naked, mindless Hulk.

The Math: The Avengers
The Pick: Hulk

What went down...
Monitor duty takes a turn for the interesting; Hawkeye discovering a rampaging naked green goliath entering the halls of the Avengers Island headquarters.

Hulk soon inadvertently finds his way to Hawkeye, smashing wildly through any wall or construct that gets in his way.

Hawkeye draws his bow quick to respond, shooting off an arrow rigged to expand into a weighted, electrically charged net. Though a charge sufficient enough to shake the Hulk is delivered, he quickly makes light work of the netting, tearing it asunder like an excited child through wrapping paper on Christmas morn.

Hulk puts Hawkeye down with laughable ease, knocking him out with little more than a hulking flick of doom.

Captain America and Swordsman assemble on the scene to come to Hawkeye's aid.
Despite Cap's previous dressing down during a training session, the impetuous Swordsman charges the Hulk with the promise of making him sorry with a dose of stabby mcpain.

Before Swordsman can put his blades of death to work, Hulk snatches his tiny human hands in his own, breaking the fragile bones of the puny human. Thus, "Hulk is not sorry. Hulk is Hulk."

Cap interjects, tossing his shield to strike Hulk in the neck sufficiently to gain his attentions.

Captain America tries to talk the Hulk down, informing him that no one by the name of "Banner" resides on the island, all the while recalling seeing just such a name in the SHIELD files.

Cap considers a potential connection between the Bruce Banner responsible for building the Avengers Island gamma core, and the rampaging beast before him.

Disinterested in the talky-talk, Hulk lets rip with a burst of speed to attack the "flagman" who tossed his nasty shield at him. Cap tries one last attempt to reason with the Hulk, in much the same fashion as the Thor fight, whilst bracing himself for impact.

Hulk, getting madder by the second (but not interesting enough for me to pad this out to get to the splash pic), collides with Cap's shield with a shuddering boom!

Though Cap and his shield manage to hold up to the initial impact, the power of the Hulk is too much for any mere mortal. With no one left standing, Hulk lets out a roar, "NOTHING CAN STOP HULK!"

The hammer...
After some none-too-subtle tap dancing to get to the scanned images, Hulk wins! X-52, tell them what he's won!... Oh, right...

So, why the dedication to a picture of Captain America and Hulk butting heads inside a yellow text outline? Look, I haven't been able to get a hold of any issues of World War Hulk, so I haven't yet had the pleasure of reading a giant sound effect produced by Hulk and Iron Man. So this is my way of just prepping for what will eventually come.
This is the teaser for all the mayhem that will eventually arrive.

Now, speaking of ghosts of mayhem-future, I'd like to think we're having some fun here. Lately there's been a collection of throughlines to a lot of the features, so hopefully you can get a little bit excited for the promise of a Thor/Hulk confrontation sometime in the near future.

Even though I haven't been reading World War Hulk, I've been keeping loose tabs on what's going on, and there's a somewhat inevitable consensus regarding the nature of the consequences of the events.

I think heading into the event we all knew Hulk, for all the talk, couldn't "win" this thing. You can't expect Hulk to ever fullfil his potential, because that would involve murderizing some of the greatest icons and cash cows Marvel Comics have.

What's been unfortunate about WWH is the disjointed atmosphere we have in the Marvel universe, post-Civil War. In a lot of ways WWH doesn't have the platform to be an event as we know it, so it's awkwardly wading it's way through compromises and situations that can resolve themselves in no satisfactory way.

I saw recently a discussion where a Hulk fan mentioned that World War Hulk promotion was entirely forthcoming, but the inherent flaw was that promos were built on the claim that Hulk was madder than ever before, and heading to Earth.

Hulk can't possibly live up to that, and that's where I can understand the disgruntled readers dropping WWH through the third or fourth issues.
As has been a theme throughout these Heroes Reborn posts, I like to shine some credit back on these maligned issues.

While the series were free to operate within their own self-contained pre-Ultimate universe, they were still dealing with the characters, and therefore could only bend and shape them so far. What Heroes Reborn did well with the Hulk was to give him the space to make his way from a starting point to a conclusion, doing so in an order that coordinated between crucial events in other books. Meaning Iron Man could be taken down solo [Iron Man #2] as the first step in what essentially served as an incidental spine for greater events.

Hulk does redeem himself by simmering low enough to work with the side of angels, and really that seems the inevitable conclusion to World War Hulk, but given the circumstances, events have been so congested, they lack the smooth flowing graduation of this Heroes Reborn story. Although, perhaps ironically, also letting World War Hulk down is the marketing decision to spread the story quite thin, further complicating matters with tie-ins, less than cohesive.

Recently revealed were letters from Mark Millar, who pitched Civil War as a tighter, more finite event where the heroes would reunite in the final act (and Thor would return) to face the threat of the Hulk. Presumably this high concept would have provided a more streamlined landscape to give World War Hulk the stage it's due.

I personally am of two minds. As much as I like strengthening the events through a logical and dramatic graduation process, it might have been equally disappointing to see Civil War be so contained. I quite enjoy, for all it's difficulties, the division and social atmosphere of the registered and rogue heroes. It seems inevitable they will eventually be reunited by cause, but for the time being it's nice to see those ramifications.

It's just a shame that characters like Dr. Strange, who are almost demanded of a Hulk event of this scale, should really be unseen, existing in the underground.
Concessions like this haven't been singular, either. Ed Brubaker's Daredevil fairly casually highlights a new leniancy toward seasoned characters who wish to be unregistered. Something unthought of during the Civil War event-proper.

While this certainly makes the writer's job easier, and frees momentum up for us the readers, it feels like a typically slack late move from Brubaker. A writer who seems to initiate himself to a readership through strong ties to an existing status quo, before lazily meandering off to much less invested takes.

EDIT (October 4, 2007): Swordsman has been relisted as his own character, as per the Superboy-Prime Directive. These stats have been removed from Deadpool's listing.

The Fight: 4 The Issue: 4
[A competent, but perhaps slightly brief Hulk battle, more a step in the journey than an epic to remember. Perhaps a little soon for creative shifts, as Loeb seemingly helps purge Avengers of naff concepts, like Swordsman. Still, fun!]