SPIDER-MAN & SILVER SURFER versus CARNAGE
Savage Rebirth! (Marvel)
Where: Amazing Spider-Man #430 When: January 1998 Why: Tom DeFalco How: Joe Bennett
The Story So Far...
The suits at the Ravencroft Institute are looking for ways to cut back on spending, and newly appointed Mr. Pogue figures the first place to start is maximum security dedicated to a single inmate.
Where: Amazing Spider-Man #430 When: January 1998 Why: Tom DeFalco How: Joe Bennett
The Story So Far...
The suits at the Ravencroft Institute are looking for ways to cut back on spending, and newly appointed Mr. Pogue figures the first place to start is maximum security dedicated to a single inmate.
The administrator reasons Cletus Kasady will be none the wiser if they disarm the costly hi-tech network of concentrated microwave generators that keep Kasady's alien symbiote at bay -- but he's dead wrong! Now Carnage is on the loose, and the blood of Martha Robertson -- wife of Bugle EIC Robbie Robertson -- is his chosen medium for sending a message to his enemies: Carnage Rules!
Peter Parker promised his wife Mary-Jane he'd stay out of costume while Norman Osborn's Daily Bugle holds a million dollar bounty on his head, but with great power must come great responsibility! The web-slinger heads out to stop another citywide slaughter -- even though he's never been able to beat Carnage alone!
Peter Parker promised his wife Mary-Jane he'd stay out of costume while Norman Osborn's Daily Bugle holds a million dollar bounty on his head, but with great power must come great responsibility! The web-slinger heads out to stop another citywide slaughter -- even though he's never been able to beat Carnage alone!
Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Silver Surfer 6 (Invincible)Intelligence: Spider-Man 5 (Professor)
Speed: Silver Surfer 7 (Light Speed)
Stamina: Silver Surfer 6 (Generator)
Agility: Spider-Man 5 (Cat-Like)
Fighting: Draw 3 (Street Wise)
Energy: Silver Surfer 7 (Cosmic Power)
Total: Silver Surfer 37 (Cosmic)
Spider-Man has more than his fair share of lethal foes, but they don't come much deadlier than Carnage!
The symbiote-bonded alter-ego of serial killer Cletus Kasady has always had the better of the web-slinger, necessitating team-ups with the likes of Venom just to try to keep the slaughter to a minimum.
Venom carried the load when they worked together to end the Maximum Carnage crossover in Spider-Man Unlimited #2, but not before their alliance came off second best in Spider-Man #35.
Earlier still, Spidey took a brutal shot to busted ribs in Web of Spider-Man #101, in a battle that also featured Carnage's demented adopted family, and seemingly claimed the life of the light-bringer, Dagger.
Despite a svelte appearance; Carnage has always possessed far greater strength than Spider-Man, wielding it with a variety of symbiote transformations, such as double-edged axe-hands, long bladed fingers, talons, tendrils, and extending limbs. A literal murderers row of effective killing implements!
He might not have much luck cutting through the chrome skin of Spider-Man's surprise partner, though. Silver Surfer is in a whole other league, possessing the power cosmic that's bested Ronan The Accuser, Nebula, Super-Skrull, and even DC's Green Lantern!
We've only seen symbiotes go cosmic a couple of times and the results have been mixed. Venom was a surprising match for an unfamiliar Superman during their initial crossover in DC/Marvel: All Access #1. The cosmically powered Nova was better prepared to blast Mac Gargan while fighting the Thunderbolts in Nova #3.
Our best reference may be the zombie Spider-Man of Earth 2419, who was able to use the Silver Surfer's power to blast a hole clean through Venom. The transfer of power raises a raft of other issues, but it broadly suggests it shouldn't be too hard for The Surfer to exploit Carnage's weakness for fire and sonic disturbance.
The Tape: Spider-Man & Silver Surfer Ranking: Spider-Man (#2)
What Went Down...
A thin web line shoots from the heavens at the vital moment as Carnage tosses a car towards an illegally parked businessman. Spider-Man yanks the man clear of danger and leaves him webbed to a building out of the symbiote's reach.
Hero and villain might see eye to eye on parking violations and handicap spaces, but the prospects for a peaceful surrender are slim to none. Carnage is on the loose and seeking fresh thrills from his old sparring partner!
Spidey bounces off the roof of an empty parked car, narrowly avoiding a long and jagged limb -- it smashes the canopy flat!
No such luck on the second attempt. A quick, slashing uppercut catches Spider-Man in mid-air and sends him slamming into another vehicle!
Nearby spectators debate fleeing the scene to avoid becoming statistics in another Carnage killing spree, but a couple of the more opportunistic types decide to gamble their fate on claiming a Daily Bugle bounty from Spider-Man's corpse.
Carnage overhears the onlookers, and taunts Spidey with the public's plans to profit from his untimely demise.
The villain throws two symbiote-extended hands that smash through car windows directly behind Spider-Man. An accidental miss? Or a means to secure a grip of the mangled vehicle and toss it casually in the direction of the callous profiteers?
As the public runs for their lives from the airborne vehicle -- a chromium skinned figure happens to glide gracefully through the sky overhead.
Lamenting humanity's penchant for violence; Silver Surfer never-the-less vows to bring aid upon the beleaguered Spider-Man he spots down below!
Carnage moves menacingly upon the spider with a stop sign hoisted over his head, but a simple bolt of cosmic energy renders the makeshift weapon non-existent!
The snippy serial killer turns to tell the cosmic herald to butt out of his blood feud, but as the identity of the silver stranger dawns upon him -- the symbiote recognizes the descending figure as well!
Fear is the last thing Cletus Kasady feels as the living red costume suddenly explodes from his body!
A thick red stream of living ooze curls through the air, arching towards a nearby storm drain, leaving the naked quivering body of its human host in the street.
An unbreakable bond is seemingly severed, and with a key word from Spider-Man -- the Silver Surfer immediately knows what he has just witnessed!
Familiar with the all-consuming threat the symbiote poses to the planet: Silver Surfer uses his cosmic power to evaporate the street beneath him and take up pursuit of the fleeing alien through the sewers.
On the surface; Spider-Man attempts to learn more from Kasady. The killer is racked with panic by the overwhelming sense of suddenly being alone -- and the residual terror & loathing felt by the symbiote.
The creature's shared race-memory is all too aware of the Silver Surfer from his years spent as herald to the devourer of worlds. For the destruction of one of its home planets, the symbiote desires revenge, and there's only one way it can defeat the Silver Surfer -- by becoming him!
The red symbiote springs its trap - catching the Silver Surfer by stretching suddenly to cover the entire space of the sewer before him.
What emerges from beneath the street is something truly terrible. A cosmic horror driven to its basest instincts by madness and bloodlust. The Surfer has fallen prey to the symbiote -- now there is only The Carnage Cosmic!
The Hammer...So we witness the chilling birth of The Carnage Cosmic: a concept that tickles the fancy of every fanboy who's ever wondered what would happen if a symbiote bonded with a more powerful host.
In the last decade Marvel has made an unfortunate habit of these kinds of character mash-ups, but back in 1998 this kind of fusion was unheard of! It struck like a bolt from the blue, and the legend of its two issue impact has managed to continue to capture the imagination -- or what's left of it -- of readers to this very day!
In the last decade Marvel has made an unfortunate habit of these kinds of character mash-ups, but back in 1998 this kind of fusion was unheard of! It struck like a bolt from the blue, and the legend of its two issue impact has managed to continue to capture the imagination -- or what's left of it -- of readers to this very day!
So what exactly happened? Let's break it down as simply as possible to suit the needs of our humble Comic Book Fight Club:
Silver Surfer showed up and put the fear of god(s) in Carnage, which sent the symbiote scrambling, and left Cletus Kasady quivering in the street in his birthday suit. The method is unorthodox, but that constitutes a win -- over Cletus.
The Carnage symbiote latched onto The Surfer, essentially switching sides to join the winning team. That's gonna require an update to the rankings.
We always had the wherewithal to rank & record the Venom Symbiote as a separate entity from Eddie Brock. After all, it famously started with Spider-Man, and has found a few other noteworthy hosts along the way. The same should've been true of Carnage, but because of the strong bond between the red symbiote and Cletus Kasady, we've never had to make that distinction -- until now.
Enthusiasts will know this wasn't the first time the Carnage symbiote latched on to somebody else. Ben Reilly had a similarly brief turn as "Spider-Carnage" a couple of years prior, during his time as Spider-Man.
The chance encounter between Carnage and Silver Surfer was, however, one of the first times we were encouraged to think of he and Venom in a cosmic context.
The chance encounter between Carnage and Silver Surfer was, however, one of the first times we were encouraged to think of he and Venom in a cosmic context.
It was inevitable that we would one day discover more about the alien origins of the symbiotes, but after the black costume's formal introduction in Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8, we were rarely asked to ponder its life beyond Earth.
As the living suit worn by Peter Parker and Eddie Brock; the black symbiote was a means to a super-powered ends. Its passage from one host to the next created a novel origin story for a super-villain, who in turn became a popular anti-hero, but remained predominantly preoccupied with earthbound concerns.
As the living suit worn by Peter Parker and Eddie Brock; the black symbiote was a means to a super-powered ends. Its passage from one host to the next created a novel origin story for a super-villain, who in turn became a popular anti-hero, but remained predominantly preoccupied with earthbound concerns.
Even the introduction of Venom's alien offspring didn't venture too far beyond the simple thrill of a new, more extreme menace for both Spider-Man and Brock to deal with. Maximum Carnage brought the villain into the purview of some unusual opponents, but its strangest alliances never breached the cosmic.
Venom's ambiguous backstory begged many questions, but I appreciate the clean simplicity of life before the all-answering and consuming creation of Knull.
Connecting the symbiotes' past with Silver Surfer and Galactus was a nice bit of world building that didn't go too far. It has an amusingly ironic symmetry, similar to the Marvel Zombies meeting Galactus, with a bit more respect for Marvel's established food chain. Building backwards, without disrupting the balance and control of one or two characters, was a palatable way to explore.
Venom's ambiguous backstory begged many questions, but I appreciate the clean simplicity of life before the all-answering and consuming creation of Knull.
Connecting the symbiotes' past with Silver Surfer and Galactus was a nice bit of world building that didn't go too far. It has an amusingly ironic symmetry, similar to the Marvel Zombies meeting Galactus, with a bit more respect for Marvel's established food chain. Building backwards, without disrupting the balance and control of one or two characters, was a palatable way to explore.
It makes sense that we should think of infestation as a planetary concern, but the existential parasitic threat was mitigated by limiting asexual reproduction to "once per generation". Even the threat to the individual seemed to melt away as Eddie Brock and Cletus Kasady became standard bearers for a successful bonding.
We eventually got more symbiotes, but their lack of traction in the larger public consciousness highlighted the pitfalls of opening the floodgates. It's a bit like the Alien film franchise, where returning to Earth was a looming hypothetical threat, but once that page was turned in the Versus Predator films, it was apparent just how dissatisfying anything less than total commitment to global peril really is.
Brian Bendis took a stab at having it both ways with his "symbiote bomb" in Avengers, but the entire episode seemed frivolous and inconsequential. There was still a cap on how far the outbreak could go, and even on this smaller scale the macro began to lose any sense of character or genuine intrigue.
The wisdom of the Alien films seems to have settled on keeping things personal. A less is more philosophy, consistent with the atmospheric horror of the 1979 original that many agree remains the best. As Josef Stalin put it, "The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." The threat of Carnage is personal, but an Earth consumed with symbiotes has lost clear meaning.
If you'd like to get personal with Carnage you can find today's featured fight Amazing Spider-Man #430 and many more collected in Carnage Classic! Use the Amazon purchase link provided to do your shopping and you'll not only find a good deal -- you'll also help support the site at no extra cost!
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Winner: Silver Surfer (w/ Spider-Man)
#31 (+5) Silver Surfer
#2 (--) Spider-Man [+1 assist]
#121 (new) Carnage (Symbiote) [+1 assist]
#135 (-12) Carnage (Cletus Kasady)
#31 (+5) Silver Surfer
#2 (--) Spider-Man [+1 assist]
#121 (new) Carnage (Symbiote) [+1 assist]
#135 (-12) Carnage (Cletus Kasady)
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