SPIDER-MAN & SILVER SURFER versus CARNAGE

Savage Rebirth! (Marvel)
Where: Amazing Spider-Man #430 When: January 1998 Why: Tom DeFalco How: Joe Bennett

The Story So Far...
The suits at the Ravencroft Institute are looking for ways to cut back on spending, and newly appointed Mr. Pogue figures the first place to start is maximum security dedicated to a single inmate.

The administrator reasons Cletus Kasady will be none the wiser if they disarm the costly hi-tech network of concentrated microwave generators that keep Kasady's alien symbiote at bay -- but he's dead wrong! Now Carnage is on the loose, and the blood of Martha Robertson -- wife of Bugle EIC Robbie Robertson -- is his chosen medium for sending a message to his enemies: Carnage Rules!

Peter Parker promised his wife Mary-Jane he'd stay out of costume while Norman Osborn's Daily Bugle holds a million dollar bounty on his head, but with great power must come great responsibility! The web-slinger heads out to stop another citywide slaughter -- even though he's never been able to beat Carnage alone!

Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Silver Surfer 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Spider-Man 5 (Professor)
Speed: Silver Surfer 7 (Light Speed)
Stamina: Silver Surfer 6 (Generator)
Agility: Spider-Man 5 (Cat-Like)
Fighting: Draw 3 (Street Wise)
Energy: Silver Surfer 7 (Cosmic Power)
Total: Silver Surfer 37 (Cosmic)

Spider-Man has more than his fair share of lethal foes, but they don't come much deadlier than Carnage!

The symbiote-bonded alter-ego of serial killer Cletus Kasady has always had the better of the web-slinger, necessitating team-ups with the likes of Venom just to try to keep the slaughter to a minimum.

Venom carried the load when they worked together to end the Maximum Carnage crossover in Spider-Man Unlimited #2, but not before their alliance came off second best in Spider-Man #35.

Earlier still, Spidey took a brutal shot to busted ribs in Web of Spider-Man #101, in a battle that also featured Carnage's demented adopted family, and seemingly claimed the life of the light-bringer, Dagger.

Despite a svelte appearance; Carnage has always possessed far greater strength than Spider-Man, wielding it with a variety of symbiote transformations, such as double-edged axe-hands, long bladed fingers, talons, tendrils, and extending limbs. A literal murderers row of effective killing implements!

He might not have much luck cutting through the chrome skin of Spider-Man's surprise partner, though. Silver Surfer is in a whole other league, possessing the power cosmic that's bested Ronan The Accuser, Nebula, Super-Skrull, and even DC's Green Lantern!

We've only seen symbiotes go cosmic a couple of times and the results have been mixed. Venom was a surprising match for an unfamiliar Superman during their initial crossover in DC/Marvel: All Access #1. The cosmically powered Nova was better prepared to blast Mac Gargan while fighting the Thunderbolts in Nova #3.

Our best reference may be the zombie Spider-Man of Earth 2419, who was able to use the Silver Surfer's power to blast a hole clean through Venom. The transfer of power raises a raft of other issues, but it broadly suggests it shouldn't be too hard for The Surfer to exploit Carnage's weakness for fire and sonic disturbance.

The Tape: Spider-Man & Silver Surfer Ranking: Spider-Man (#2)

What Went Down...

A thin web line shoots from the heavens at the vital moment as Carnage tosses a car towards an illegally parked businessman. Spider-Man yanks the man clear of danger and leaves him webbed to a building out of the symbiote's reach.

Hero and villain might see eye to eye on parking violations and handicap spaces, but the prospects for a peaceful surrender are slim to none. Carnage is on the loose and seeking fresh thrills from his old sparring partner!

Spidey bounces off the roof of an empty parked car, narrowly avoiding a long and jagged limb -- it smashes the canopy flat!

No such luck on the second attempt. A quick, slashing uppercut catches Spider-Man in mid-air and sends him slamming into another vehicle!

Nearby spectators debate fleeing the scene to avoid becoming statistics in another Carnage killing spree, but a couple of the more opportunistic types decide to gamble their fate on claiming a Daily Bugle bounty from Spider-Man's corpse.

Carnage overhears the onlookers, and taunts Spidey with the public's plans to profit from his untimely demise.

The villain throws two symbiote-extended hands that smash through car windows directly behind Spider-Man. An accidental miss? Or a means to secure a grip of the mangled vehicle and toss it casually in the direction of the callous profiteers?

As the public runs for their lives from the airborne vehicle -- a chromium skinned figure happens to glide gracefully through the sky overhead.

Lamenting humanity's penchant for violence; Silver Surfer never-the-less vows to bring aid upon the beleaguered Spider-Man he spots down below!

Carnage moves menacingly upon the spider with a stop sign hoisted over his head, but a simple bolt of cosmic energy renders the makeshift weapon non-existent!

The snippy serial killer turns to tell the cosmic herald to butt out of his blood feud, but as the identity of the silver stranger dawns upon him -- the symbiote recognizes the descending figure as well!

Fear is the last thing Cletus Kasady feels as the living red costume suddenly explodes from his body!

A thick red stream of living ooze curls through the air, arching towards a nearby storm drain, leaving the naked quivering body of its human host in the street.

An unbreakable bond is seemingly severed, and with a key word from Spider-Man -- the Silver Surfer immediately knows what he has just witnessed!

Familiar with the all-consuming threat the symbiote poses to the planet: Silver Surfer uses his cosmic power to evaporate the street beneath him and take up pursuit of the fleeing alien through the sewers.

On the surface; Spider-Man attempts to learn more from Kasady. The killer is racked with panic by the overwhelming sense of suddenly being alone -- and the residual terror & loathing felt by the symbiote.

The creature's shared race-memory is all too aware of the Silver Surfer from his years spent as herald to the devourer of worlds. For the destruction of one of its home planets, the symbiote desires revenge, and there's only one way it can defeat the Silver Surfer -- by becoming him!

The red symbiote springs its trap - catching the Silver Surfer by stretching suddenly to cover the entire space of the sewer before him.

What emerges from beneath the street is something truly terrible. A cosmic horror driven to its basest instincts by madness and bloodlust. The Surfer has fallen prey to the symbiote -- now there is only The Carnage Cosmic!

The Hammer...

So we witness the chilling birth of The Carnage Cosmic: a concept that tickles the fancy of every fanboy who's ever wondered what would happen if a symbiote bonded with a more powerful host.

In the last decade Marvel has made an unfortunate habit of these kinds of character mash-ups, but back in 1998 this kind of fusion was unheard of! It struck like a bolt from the blue, and the legend of its two issue impact has managed to continue to capture the imagination -- or what's left of it -- of readers to this very day!

So what exactly happened? Let's break it down as simply as possible to suit the needs of our humble Comic Book Fight Club:

Silver Surfer showed up and put the fear of god(s) in Carnage, which sent the symbiote scrambling, and left Cletus Kasady quivering in the street in his birthday suit. The method is unorthodox, but that constitutes a win -- over Cletus.

The Carnage symbiote latched onto The Surfer, essentially switching sides to join the winning team. That's gonna require an update to the rankings.

We always had the wherewithal to rank & record the Venom Symbiote as a separate entity from Eddie Brock. After all, it famously started with Spider-Man, and has found a few other noteworthy hosts along the way. The same should've been true of Carnage, but because of the strong bond between the red symbiote and Cletus Kasady, we've never had to make that distinction -- until now.

Enthusiasts will know this wasn't the first time the Carnage symbiote latched on to somebody else. Ben Reilly had a similarly brief turn as "Spider-Carnage" a couple of years prior, during his time as Spider-Man.

The chance encounter between Carnage and Silver Surfer was, however, one of the first times we were encouraged to think of he and Venom in a cosmic context.

It was inevitable that we would one day discover more about the alien origins of the symbiotes, but after the black costume's formal introduction in Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8, we were rarely asked to ponder its life beyond Earth.

As the living suit worn by Peter Parker and Eddie Brock; the black symbiote was a means to a super-powered ends. Its passage from one host to the next created a novel origin story for a super-villain, who in turn became a popular anti-hero, but remained predominantly preoccupied with earthbound concerns.

Even the introduction of Venom's alien offspring didn't venture too far beyond the simple thrill of a new, more extreme menace for both Spider-Man and Brock to deal with. Maximum Carnage brought the villain into the purview of some unusual opponents, but its strangest alliances never breached the cosmic.

Venom's ambiguous backstory begged many questions, but I appreciate the clean simplicity of life before the all-answering and consuming creation of Knull.

Connecting the symbiotes' past with Silver Surfer and Galactus was a nice bit of world building that didn't go too far. It has an amusingly ironic symmetry, similar to the Marvel Zombies meeting Galactus, with a bit more respect for Marvel's established food chain. Building backwards, without disrupting the balance and control of one or two characters, was a palatable way to explore.

It makes sense that we should think of infestation as a planetary concern, but the existential parasitic threat was mitigated by limiting asexual reproduction to "once per generation". Even the threat to the individual seemed to melt away as Eddie Brock and Cletus Kasady became standard bearers for a successful bonding.

We eventually got more symbiotes, but their lack of traction in the larger public consciousness highlighted the pitfalls of opening the floodgates. It's a bit like the Alien film franchise, where returning to Earth was a looming hypothetical threat, but once that page was turned in the Versus Predator films, it was apparent just how dissatisfying anything less than total commitment to global peril really is.

Brian Bendis took a stab at having it both ways with his "symbiote bomb" in Avengers, but the entire episode seemed frivolous and inconsequential. There was still a cap on how far the outbreak could go, and even on this smaller scale the macro began to lose any sense of character or genuine intrigue.

The wisdom of the Alien films seems to have settled on keeping things personal. A less is more philosophy, consistent with the atmospheric horror of the 1979 original that many agree remains the best. As Josef Stalin put it, "The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." The threat of Carnage is personal, but an Earth consumed with symbiotes has lost clear meaning.

If you'd like to get personal with Carnage you can find today's featured fight Amazing Spider-Man #430 and many more collected in Carnage Classic! Use the Amazon purchase link provided to do your shopping and you'll not only find a good deal -- you'll also help support the site at no extra cost!

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Winner: Silver Surfer (w/ Spider-Man)
#31 (+5) Silver Surfer
#2 (--) Spider-Man [+1 assist]
#121 (new) Carnage (Symbiote) [+1 assist]
#135 (-12) Carnage (Cletus Kasady)

JUSTICE LEAGUE versus DARKSEID

Rock of Ages Part Five: Twilight Of The Gods (DC)
Where: JLA #14 When: January 1998
Why: Grant Morrison How: Howard Porter

The Story So Far...
Hard light holograms simulating the seven core members of The Justice League are just the beginning of their problems when a new Injustice Gang is formed by Lex Luthor!

The wealthy businessman has come into possession of a rare and powerful stone that allows him to control an alien prisoner and his Injustice Gang teammates. He thinks it might just be the ultimate weapon -- but in its many guises The Worlogog is the key to initiating cosmic armageddon!

Aquaman, Green Lantern, and The Flash find themselves thrust through time & space by the New God Metron in an effort to destroy "The Philosopher's Stone", but when they arrive fifteen years into the future they discover its destruction has brought humanity to the brink of annihilation!

Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Darkseid 7 (Omnipotent)
Intelligence: Metron 7 (Infinite Wisdom)
Speed: Flash 7 (Lightspeed)
Stamina: Darkseid 7 (Unstoppable)
Agility: Batman 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting: Wonder Woman 6 (Warrior)
Energy: Green Lantern 7 (Cosmic Power)
Total: Darkseid 36 (Cosmic)

What happens if evil finally wins? It's a question every comic book reader has pondered, and a few too many contemporary storytellers are willing to answer.

In 1998 JLA struck the right balance with a dark future dominated by evil New Gods in Rock of Ages. This Justice League are: Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Swarmtrooper 000830, and Wally West.

The tattered future League aren't entirely the heroes you remember. Huddled in the underground Detroit JLA Bunker, they represent the last remnants of the JLA gathered by a time displaced Aquaman, who now inhabits his future-self.

Joining him from fifteen years in the past is Kyle Rayner, whose body has been converted into a techno zombie-like Swarmtrooper sans Green Lantern ring, and Wally West: a pale shadow of his former self, now disconnected from the Speed Force, and reduced to a sickly, overweight firepit builder in the Keystone Ghetto.

Their first ally from the future is Wonder Woman: a battle-hardened, armor-clad survivor who'll die before the Zombie Factory takes her. They're also joined by Green Arrow, Atom, Argent, Azteka, and a reprogrammed Amazo, all of whom have roles to play in coordinated strikes away from the rest of the team.

Batman was believed taken some eight years prior, but it turns out he endured years of physical and psychological torture, overthrowing Desaad to remain embedded under deep cover for two months disguised as his captor. He's perfectly positioned to formulate a plan to strike at the heart of Darkseid!

Darkseid is a New God of unspeakable evil whose pursuit of domination is as likely to be directed as his own subjects as it is his enemies! Born Uxas, he reinvented himself with the murder of his mother and conquest of the planet Apokolips!

He seeks ultimate power through the Anti-Life Equation, believing fragments of its solution to lie within the recesses of the human mind. This has drawn him toward the Earth many times before, making playthings of its mightiest champions!

His powers dwarf the godly pantheons, but he has never the less known defeat. We saw Superman and Batman overcome him in Superman/Batman #42, and his son Orion fulfilled destiny by ripping Darkseid's burning heart from his chest in the explosive battle of Countdown #2! He died of his wounds, but Darkseid and the New Gods always find a way to return to life...

The Tape: Justice League Rankings: Batman (#1)

What Went Down...

In a ship hovering over the ruined city of Metropolis: Darkseid awaits the arrival of his vile inquisitor Desaad. The New God of evil doesn't yet know his agent was replaced months ago by The Batman -- and he's bringing a new Justice League!

Batman leads the heroes through the Boom Tube, tossing scattered grenades ahead. The Apokolips-based technology fills the room with a dense "theotropically engineered" fog that baffles even the perceptions of Metron!

Darkseid erupts with furious bemusement while the League rushes purposefully through the smoke to their carefully planned destinations.

Wonder Woman elects to hold Darkseid, and the massive cube now called Granny Godness, at bay. She only promises an undisturbed minute or two. It takes mere seconds for Batman to reach The Mobius Chair and startle Metron.

The Dark Knight tempts Metron with the promise of undiscovered knowledge. He dares the New God to use his limitless power to become human for but a moment. Just long enough to record data most elusive to gods: mortal feelings.

While Metron considers the ease with which he could convert himself to a human approximation -- Wonder Woman harnesses defiant rage to fight for humanity!

"I'LL DIE BEFORE I BOW TO YOU!"

The Amazon's vow is dismissed with cold agreement. Darkseid swats her away with the back of his hand, quite certain that she will die. Not by him, though. He has trusted followers to carry out such menial tasks.

Metron was never one to get his hands so dirty. Now flesh and blood, he discovers the sensations of weight and "ceaseless particle movement". He seeks the value of recording feeling. Batman gives him a crash course in pain.

A stiff right hand stuns Metron and allows Batman to fill the gods' vulnerable mortal form with powerful hypnotic drugs. Metron will now be completely pliant and ready to obey their every instruction.

Batman leaves Metron and his Mobius Chair to the time-displaced Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash. He trusts that a new fate will be made in the past, so that this doomed existence could be unwritten. The chair takes them back.

Still in the damned future: Darkseid summons his Grandmother Box to destroy Wonder Woman.

With all the heinous cruelty of the living Granny Goodness, the machine opens a Boom Tube to the molten core of Apokolips -- and teleports a direct stream of firepit energy directly at the Wonder Woman!

The Amazon ricochets through the halls of the dark aerial fortress.

Granny Goodness turns her red lens towards Batman, but before she can enact any cruel disciplines -- Wonder Woman smashes through the Grandmother Box's shell in a final furious blaze of glory!

Batman hurls his batarang through the gaping chasm of what's left of the murderous machine. His aim is true -- cutting a perfect line -- but the weapon explodes with indifference against the impenetrable shield surrounding Darkseid.

The Batman instructs an unseen Atom to do what he can about it. Maybe the guerilla scientist hears him, maybe he doesn't. It hardly matters with Swarmptroopers flooding into the chamber to surround him.

Darkseid condescendingly wonders if this dark individual is known to him, and what he could think his "pathetic display" would achieve. The New God still doesn't fully grasp the scale of Batman's deception and his planned "display".

The Dark Knight kneels over Wonder Woman's motionless body and whispers, "We did it." Then he tells Darkseid that they've shared a few laughs, but now he's taking everything. The dark god need only look up to see the beginning...

Somewhere within Darkseid's Zombie Factory: the young hero who answers to Azteka flips a switch on her belt. It unleashes the destructive power of her four-dimensional battery's energy! The explosion rips through The Moon base!

As masses of humanity begin to awaken from the nightmare of Anti-Life, Darkseid confesses his respect for such a small being's ability to hurt him.

Darkseid's mercy is expressed through the red beams that dart jaggedly through the room until they reach their intended target.

Batman will suffer The Omega Effect, but not before he hurls a final insult at Darkseid. A bitter truth: that Darkseid finds himself surrounded by "maggots" because he did what he said he would: "You recreated the whole world in your image ... and what you see is your own ugly faaaaa--"

The last word trails off as Batman ceases to exist -- lost in a cloud of sizzling red particles. To where or when, even Darkseid does not know. It simply is.

The Hammer...
The fight does not begin or end with the death of Wonder Woman, and defeat of Batman.

The Justice League's last stand is part of a three-pronged attack fought over multiple arenas, including a second front over the skies of Metropolis.

Batman's attempt to relay intelligence to Atom will play out minutes after he suffers The Omega Effect: an ambiguous fate that sent him through ancient history, and multiple lives, when it happened again in Final Crisis.

It could be argued that the arrival of Atom & Green Arrow minutes later is part of a single coordinated strike, but it functions as part of a very separate sequence, which we'll examine as Round 2 when we reconvene in the future.

I suppose efforts to send Aquaman, Green Lantern, and The Flash back to then-present 1998 could be considered an additional front -- if we take Doc Brown's advice and think of it fourth dimensionally. Otherwise, it's a pre-emptive strike that will render this entire future moot once the Philosopher's Stone (or Worlogog) is protected.

That just leaves Argent & Azteka's attack on the "Zombie Factory" Moon base unaccounted for. We caught an indirect glimpse of it during the fight recap. If you'd like to see more of that one, you can contact me through the various available channels, including Patreon. It's interesting, but incredibly brief.

Here in the grim future (or past) of 2021: it seemed appropriate to finally touch upon Rock of Ages for the imminent release of Zack Snyder's Justice League.

It's not so much a celebration as a comparison. Both stories have superficial similarities, but play out with significantly different quality, priority, and context.

Snyder restores his original vision with a four hour runtime that shares some of the dark palette seen in the now-classic JLA comic arc, but apparently benefits from little of its levity, brisk optimism, or inventive comic book genius.

Grant Morrison takes cues from the high concept mastery of Jack Kirby and bakes it with the dizzying excess of late 90s comics. Nothing is held back, allowing JLA Rock of Ages to be many things to many people, if a little cluttered and hurried.

The story is bookended with Lex Luthor and his Injustice Gang, whose plan sets the possible dark-future into motion. It is told in two dedicated issues after an excursion through Wonder World, and a multiverse of strange and chilling realms. The beginning and end, rooted in an exciting and turbulent contemporary DC Universe, anchor the darkness with colour and the joy of good superheroes.

I would argue Morrison perfected his New Gods epic with Final Crisis. It revisited similar concepts with slightly more clarity and breadth despite a "channel changing" style that incorporates many more players and series than Rock of Ages. It also can't be understated how Morrison's work benefits from interplay with itself, and how both stories benefit each other. The guy really knows what he's doing!

The depiction of Wonder Woman in this grim future is interesting. I didn't find myself able to include some of Howard Porter's most dynamic depictions of the Amazon. In truth, she is frustratingly out of focus, even when she leads the fight against Darkseid, and rips through his sinister servants.

The helmet and armor design reminds me a little of Big Barda, but behind its gold and silver plating is a story of battle-hardened survival and withdrawal into violent warrior culture. It should read as a contrast to the superhero, but here in 2021, I can't help but notice how much this seems like the contemporary depiction of Wonder Woman. A bit like Kingdom Come, it feels like its dark example has been ignored, serving as precedent & inspiration, instead of warning.

I've written about the struggle for a definitive Wonder Woman, and the intuitive emphasis of her Amazon warrior's heritage, but today's battle, with all its sound and fury, gives me a moment's pause to consider the finer points of her status as an ambassador for peace. There may still be much work to be done.

In-fiction, the grim future of Rock of Ages ultimately doesn't matter. It's obliterated from within by Orion and the Genesis Box before our time travelling heroes even set things right. Which is good. Because as tempting as it is to wonder about the darkest outcome -- the inherent beauty of superheroes is their ability to always prevent it. Wanting anything else is just madness. Anti-Life.

The phenomenon of Zack Snyder's Justice League has been a little off-putting in total. The zealous fervor of its most die hard cultists un-ironically recalls the edicts of Darkseid himself. A ravenous pack dedicated to nothing but the darkness of Snyder's vision and the inevitability of consuming more of it. Dark Snyder is.

I've pretty much had my fill of middling to disappointing adaptations and their expanding circumference of influence. As a consumer I want more from my purchases, and as a fan I crave better days of inventive, colourful superheroes.

DC Films President Walter Hamada referred to the Snyder Cut as a "storytelling cul-de-sac". I don't think that was a comment on its creative vision, but I wouldn't be opposed if it was, and hope in the face of dangling plot threads it can live up to that designation. The new cut may restore an acceptable degree of coherence to the plot, but I find it very hard to believe it is the best the Justice League can be.

Of course, the dark future of Rock of Ages isn't the best they can be, either.

If you find yourself feeling similarly, and want to experience the entirety of today's featured battle, you might like to check out JLA: Rock of Ages collected in JLA: The Deluxe Edition Vol. 2 or JLA Rock of Ages. Using Amazon purchase links provided will not only net you a good deal, but also help support the site.

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Secret Wars on Infinite Earths has eatured well over 600 battles and ranked more than 1000 characters! You can discover them all by diving into the Secret Archive for an index of battles by publisher, series, and issue number -- or discover the joy of following links throughout this post to other stories.

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Winner: Darkseid
#119 (+287) Darkseid [+1 kill]
#466 (+6) Granny Goodness [+1 assist] [+1 kill]
#609 (new) Metron [+1 assist]
#1 (--) Batman
#10 (--) Wonder Woman [+1 kill]
#25 (--) Aquaman [+1 assist]
#34 (--) Flash (Wally West) [+1 assist]
#75 (--) Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) [+1 assist]

JUGGERNAUT versus DR. STRANGE & HULK

Of Monsters And Magicians (Marvel)
Where: Marvel Adventures #14 When: May 1998
Why: Ralph Macchio How: Andy Kuhn

The Story So Far...
Cain Marko is best known to the world as the unstoppable Juggernaut -- but when his powers begin to fade, he finds himself in danger of losing his super-strong identity!

Juggernaut's only friend in the world is Black Tom Cassidy, and the Irish super-criminal has heard a rumor that just might help his shrinking friend!

The Crimson Gem of Cyttorak that first gave Marko his magical might is said to be in the hands of a magician living in Greenwich Village. When the pair strong arm his aid Wong, they gain entry into the Sanctum Sanctorum, and an audience with Earth's Sorcerer Supreme himself: Dr. Stephen Strange!

Strange is indeed in possession of the artefact that can recharge the Juggernaut, but little does the villain realize, there is another guest in the Sanctum whose phenomenal strength could match even his. He appears to be meek Dr. Bruce Banner, but when you make him mad, he becomes a Hulk!

Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Hulk 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Dr. Strange 5 (Professor)
Speed: Hulk 4 (Olympian)
Stamina: Juggernaut 7 (Unstoppable)
Agility: Dr. Strange 3 (Acrobat)
Fighting: Hulk 6 (Warrior)
Energy: Dr. Strange 6 (Mass Destruction)


Throughout November we've been looking at the exploits of Earth's Sorcerer Supreme, but sometimes the key to being a good leader is knowing when to delegate! Good thing Dr. Strange has a very wide talent pool of secret allies to pull from!

Today's villain is a behemoth we're coming to know well on The Comic Book Fight Club! Juggernaut is a magically unstoppable powerhouse whose mystic strength has toppled Colossus [Uncanny X-Men #183], Captain Britain [Excalibur #3], Captain Marvel Jr [Unlimited Access #3], and as featured just a few weeks ago -- Dr. Strange, who lost his life in the reality of What If...? #24!

You could forgive the Doc for looking for a little assistance when tangling with a foe as powerful as this! Fortunately for him, his Sanctum Sanctorum attracts a wide array of friends and foes, luring this time the frail form of Dr. Bruce Banner, better known to the world as the incredible Hulk!

Hulk's unnatural super-human strength is biological in nature. Altered by the science of gamma radiation, Hulk is the raging monster that lurks within the mind and body of scientist Banner. He's one of the most powerful figures in the Marvel Universe, owning featured victories over Silver Surfer [Incredible Hulk #95], The Sentry [World War Hulk #5], The Avengers [Avengers #4], Thor [Avengers #5] and Red Hulk [Hulk #6]!

Popular conceit is that Hulk's strength increases the madder he gets - and nothing makes him madder than an opponent he can't beat! Some feel that implies limitless strength, but here on Secret Wars on Infinite Earths, we have always subscribed to the belief that Hulk's mortal body has a limit to the power it can produce, or contain. That's okay, though!

Unstoppable, though he may be, Juggernaut can at least be temporarily defeated! We've seen the likes of Nimrod [Uncanny X-Men #194], Superman [DC versus Marvel #1], Spider-man & Wonder Woman [Unlimited Access #1], and The Avengers [Thunderbolts #150] put him on his tin canned keister!

As evenly matched opponents go - Juggernaut and Hulk are a couple of the greats. Any fight could go either man's way! Let's not forget that Hulk has Dr. Strange in his corner, though -- and there's one special detail in this encounter that undoubtedly gives the heroes an edge!

Juggernaut has come to the Sanctum Sanctorum because his magical strength has been dwindling. He's literally wasting away -- needing to make fresh contact with the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak to recharge his powers! When the fight breaks out, he has done that, inadvertently spilling into the dimension of Cyttorak himself, but

It isn't a standard necessity for the character. Just one of those uncommon afflictions that introduces a little vulnerability. When the fight begins he has been recharged - and spilled into the dimension of Cyttorak, himself. However a shred of doubt about his power remains, and that's all Hulk and Dr. Strange should need! Let's check it out...

The Tape: Hulk Ranking: Hulk (#6)

What Went Down...
With Wong held hostage by Black Tom Cassidy, the unstoppable Juggernaut penetrates the inner chambers of The Sanctum Sanctorum. Responding to the shrinking villain's plea, Dr. Strange produces the crimson Gem of Cyttorak -- only to be swatted aside as Juggernaut greedily snatches it away!

Unassuming scientist Bruce Banner watches from the threshold as a beam of red energy escapes the gem above an unconscious Sorcerer Supreme. Seeing the emaciated Juggernaut for the villain he is - Banner dives into the fray!

The tackle sends Banner and Juggernaut plunging into a portal emitting from the ruby. Black Tom contemplates the error of their plan as his associate disappears into the void of another dimension!

Inside the other realm, Juggernaut's body swells as it bathes in the raw magic of Cyttorak! He revels in a power like he's never felt before! Standing large and super-charged, he fails to notice the ghostly presence looming behind him!

A blast of mystic energy gets the Juggernaut's attention! It seems Dr. Strange's unconscious state was not a result of physical harm -- but rather, a plan to open the interdimensional doorway and entrap the Juggernaut with his astral form!

The Juggernaut starts charging toward his ectoplasmic foe, but strange claps his hands together and fires a beam at the at his feet. The spell causes the very ground to rise up around the Juggernaut -- but his unstoppable strength is too great to be held for long!

Strange attempts a more direct approach, conjuring a gigantic medieval pincer -- but Juggernaut catches its pointed ends, and shatters the weapon with his phenomenal power! As he stalks toward the astral spectre, Strange realizes the powers Juggernaut receives from this realm could place him in mortal danger!

Seeing the man who helped him in peril, Bruce Banner gives in to his inner anxiety and rage. In an explosion of muscle and anger, he shatters the calm bestowed by the mystic and unleashes the incredible Hulk!

Believing the Hulk to be summoned by Strange's magic, Juggernaut accepts the challenge. A chance to prove who the strongest in the world really is!

The two behemoths collide -- the unstoppable force meeting the immovable monster! A green hook chin checks the Juggernaut. He fires back with an unstoppable uppercut! Hulk drives both fists down atop his foe. Juggernaut fires back with a left cross of his own. Hulk throws another punch back his way. Two evenly matched powerhouses locked in a call-and-reply conversation of combat!

Seeing no end in sight: Dr. Strange plants a suggestion in the simple mind of the Hulk, urging him to direct his blows in the direction of a distant temple. An almighty blow sends Juggernaut flying in the intended direction.

At the foot of the enormous idol is another gleaming gem of Cyttorak! Seeing a chance to boost his powers to even greater heights: Juggernaut reaches out for the ruby. At first, it has the intended effect - flooding his massive body with rippling waves of energy! Triumph turns to horror as Juggernaut is consumed by the unending raw power! He shrieks for help as his body bursts with light and he disappears!

In Juggernaut's place appears the visage of the entity Cyttorak! He chastises Earth's Sorcerer Supreme for trespassing upon his realm, but also expresses a begrudging gratitude for his prior role in dispensing with Mindless Ones. For that, Cyttorak agrees to return Stephen Strange and Bruce Banner to Earth.

Juggernaut, however, will not be so fortunate. He must be punished for meddling with primal forces beyond him!

The Hammer...
After careful deliberation: Hulk & Dr. Strange will share the victory, with an invaluable assist from Cyttorak! Hard times for Juggernaut, who quite clearly picks up another defeat.

Fans of The Comic Book Fight Club will be excited to know the result means Hulk rises from #6 in the rankings, to #4! He super-leaps new #5 Wolverine, and pushes Superman out of the Top 5, down to #6! Scroll to the bottom of this entry for the full character rankings update.

Despite its impact on our ranks, not all fans will be rushing enthusiastically to quote this particular example of the Hulk defeating the unstoppable Juggernaut.

Marvel Adventures, for those who may not know, was a consolidated out-of-canon series spinning out of the various comics inspired by Marvel's cartoons.

Throughout the early to mid nineties; X-Men, Spider-man, Fantastic Four, Iron Man and Hulk all graced the small screen in starring animated series. The quality of the animation varied, but for the most part, they were excellent, faithful introductions to the wonderful world of Marvel Comics.

Many episodes adapted famous stories from classic comics. On rare occasions, the cartoons even crossed over with one another! Dr. Strange was one such hero to go between series, appearing in a Spider-man episode in '96, before making his way into the second series of Incredible Hulk, in '97.

The whole phenomenon first closed the loop on itself in 1992, when Marvel published issue #1 of X-Men Adventures. Throughout its four year run, the series would adapt episodes of the cartoon to comics. It sounds a little silly, but it was a 90s commerce solution to an influx of cartoon viewers becoming comics readers. The barrier to entry was low, and familiarity bred the cool kids who skipped out-of-continuity stories, delving deeper into the on-going canon!

Convoluted production issues on the third series of animated X-Men saw episodes shuffled to meet deadlines, censorship and run time. Volume 3 of X-Men Adventures adapted The Phoenix storylines central to the cartoon, but left many stories unrepresented. Instead, a subsequent launch of Adventures of the X-Men began a new era of telling original stories only partially inspired by the world of the cartoons. Marvel Adventures continued this with a revolving cast of cartoon inspired heroes and villains, often in combination.

Considering the state of Marvel Comics from '96 to '98, these simplified and iconic versions of characters had a real place on racks. In Adventures, fans could get fun, done-in-one stories away from convoluted events like Ben Reilly as Spider-man, the Heroes Reborn reboot universe, and so on. I may have been enjoying those stories at the time, but I certainly appreciated these alternatives.

If classic heroes and villains weren't selling point enough - there was the wholly unique art style of Andy Kuhn! You may know him these days from series like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or Firebreather. In the mid to late nineties, his big, bold, exaggerated art style gave Marvel's characters a unique contemporary look, and helped define the identity of Adventures branded comics!

Of course, being so identified with the Adventures ghetto probably didn't do him a lot of favours in the dismissive eyes of regular Marvel readers. He's found his way into books like Secret Avengers in recent years, but in my opinion, Kuhn remains significantly underrated! An artist I'd love to see more of.

We may get to more Kuhn in the future, but for now, we conclude a month of celebrating Doctor Strange! The Sorcerer Supreme has been the subject of our November battles, and is in theatres now!

If you read this week's spoilerific Hero of the Week spotlight, you know the Doctor Strange movie has an intriguing surprise cameo. That's going to fuel our final feature fight - next week! It's a forgotten classic, so you won't want to miss it! If you have, be sure to dive into character tag links or the Issue Index Archive! You'll find hundreds of features if you do!

Winners: Hulk and Doctor Strange (w/ Cyttorak)
#4 (+2) Hulk
#22 (+10) Dr. Strange
#43 (--) Juggernaut
#504 (new) Cyttorak

TEEN TITANS versus BROTHERHOOD OF EVIL MUTANTS

The Greatest Heroes Of All Time (Marvel/DC)
Where: Unlimited Access #3 When: February 1998
Why: Karl Kesel How: Pat Olliffe

The Story So Far...
Axel Asher was just an ordinary New York University student until a trip down an alleyway turned into a life changing meeting with destiny!

Confronted by a man with a glowing cardboard box - Axel learned the responsibility was his to maintain the balance between two universes as the hero Access! When the two worlds went to war he learnt on the job: first merging the worlds together to stop the warring cosmic brothers that fuelled their fight, then fighting to stop reality as it should be from ceasing to exist!

Access is still trying to keep the worlds apart, but dark forces have begun to tamper with time and space! Thrown between the universes in their different periods, Axel has no choice but to recruit the aid of more crossover heroes! When the Justice League and Avengers go to war, he can only pluck the next generation to come to his aid when The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants strikes!

Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Juggernaut 6 (Invincible)
Intelligence: Robin 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Impulse 7 (Lightspeed)
Stamina: Juggernaut 7 (Unstoppable)
Agility: Toad 5 (Cat-Like)
Fighting: Sabretooth 7 (Born Fighter)
Energy: Scarlet Witch 7 (Cosmic)


The Teen Titans are: Robin, Superboy, Captain Marvel Jr, Impulse & Wonder Girl. They come to the aid of inter-dimensional summoner: Access.

As hard as it is to believe, we've got a couple of debuts coming our way on both side of the fight! For the heroes, this is the first time The Comic Book Fight Club has played host to Impulse and "Wonder Girl" Donna Troy!

They're fighting alongside the Tim Drake and Kon-El versions of Robin and Superboy. Important to note because they'd easily be confused amidst the time travel shenanigans that have brought the Teen Titans into conflict with today's villains...

The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants are: Mastermind, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Toad, Mystique, Blob, Sabretooth & Juggernaut.

The time displaced bad guys begin as the original sixties Brotherhood [see; X-Men #6], but get a serious injection of talent from other eras in the form of Mystique, Blob, Sabretooth, and the decidedly non-mutant, but still quite bad: Juggernaut!

For those keeping score at home, this marks the site debut for both Mystique and Blob! This all spells bad news for the kid heroes who are outnumbered, and arguably overmatched when it comes to experience and firepower, as well!

There isn't a lot of crossover experience between the two teams as they exist here, but what there is, is noteworthy. Three of these characters featured in the DC versus Marvel cosmic event: Robin defeated Jubilee [Marvel versus DC #3], Superboy lost to Spider-man [Marvel versus DC #3], and Quicksilver was defeated by former Titan: The Flash [Marvel versus DC #2]! Juggernaut also found himself flung into the path of Superman in an unofficial bout [DC versus Marvel #1], and later fought Wonder Woman in Unlimited Access #1, plucked from a time period after this fight. Donna Troy was the only Titan to participate in the pre-Crisis 1982 Uncanny X-Men/New Teen Titans crossover.

Juggernaut and Blob are arguably menace enough to occupy an entire team on their own. The unstoppable force and immovable object, respectively. They may be able to call upon the physical strengths of Captain Marvel Jr or Superboy to pin either down, but for the Teen Titans to stand any chance, they're going to want to pull some classic team tactics. Impulse's speed, and/or Robin's agility could be the answer to redirecting Juggernaut's unstoppable charge in the direction of Blob. That's a best case scenario that leaves their powerhouses free to occupy the rest of the villains.

Quicksilver's speed could prove problematic, but Superboy might slow him down with some well timed tactile telekinesis and brute strength. Scarlet Witch poses a serious threat with her hex powers, but in the old days, her timid personality will likely take her out of the fight when her brother's hurt. Toad and Mystique are lightweights matched by Wonder Girl and the team. Sabretooth is cunning, brutal and strong, but even if he gets the drop of the team and takes a hostage, the likes of Impulse or Captain Marvel Jr have it covered.

Mastermind may be the most likely danger working for the Brotherhood. His ability to cloud the young heroes' perception with illusions could very quickly render them vulnerable, or even turn them against each other. All the villains could pose serious threats given the right circumstances, but Mastermind's unassuming appearance and tendency to hang back makes him a big one!

We could come at this a lot of ways, but that's the quick version. It's the Teen Titans who need to fight uphill. Let's just find out how they actually did...

The Tape: Sabretooth Ranking: Robin (#32)

What Went Down...

Having been lured in by an illusion of his girlfriend in peril -- Access has found himself in the super-fast clutches of Quicksilver! Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants is working for Darkseid and Access knows he needs help if he's to stop their evil plan. With the Avengers and Justice League busy, he uses his power to open a portal between worlds and summon a selection of Teen Titans!

The young heroes recognize peril where they see it - Impulse the first to act to rescue Access from The Brotherhood! Quicksilver takes exception to the brash, "big-footed" speedster, who opts to skip his lesson in humility!

Meanwhile, Toad gets a lesson in the value of theatrics from Robin. The mutant leaps and kicks circles around his foe, boasting the advantage of being homo superior, but is quickly dispatched with a skill toss of a roped batarang. "Listen, if your name doesn't make your enemies fear you, your actions better!"

Superboy tries a more affectionate approach to subdue the Scarlet Witch, but his charm offensive falls on deaf ears. Her hex power on the other hand, falls on a nearby fire hydrant - which blasts the young hero with a well deserved and intense "cold shower"!

Lucky for Superboy, fresh faced Wonder Girl is more than thrilled to be fighting in his presence! She comes to his rescue with a swift uppercut that dispatches the Scarlet Witch before she knows what hit her!

Captain Marvel Jr isn't sure what's happening to him, either, when his arms begin to turn against him in the form of giant serpents! It's all part of the plan of the illusion projecting Mastermind! Unlucky for him, Junior's mastery of the wisdom of Solomon helps him see through the mentalists trick. The strength of Hercules is more than a match for meek Mastermind, who takes a stiff left!

Unfortunately, it's no trick when Juggernaut comes up behind Marvel Jr and pounds him into the ground with two clubbing, unstoppable fists!

It also isn't an illusion when two Superboys confront Wonder Girl! She has no way of knowing the truth as they both plead their case to being the genuine article. At least, not until Sabretooth lurks up behind her with claws drawn and the real Superboy springs into action to stop him!

Superboy succeeds at torpedo driving Sabretooth into a stationary car, but can't be of any assistance as the second Superboy gets the drop on Wonder Girl - delivering a stiff chop to the neck as he transforms into Mystique!

Robin is busy doing his best to slow down the Blob. His martial arts fail to make an impact, serving only to annoy the hulking mountain of mutant mass! Having collected the bundled up Toad, Blob turns him into a living projectile - hurling his unconscious body at a Robin shaped bullseye!

Still stomping around the fight - the Juggernaut sets his sights on Access and Impulse and starts a-rampaging! Access is relying on Impulse to dash them both to safety at the last second -- when suddenly a beam of energy slams the Juggernaut! And a blast of ice sends him unstoppably slipping and stumbling!

Watching from elsewhere: the master of magnetism Magneto curses the arrival of Xavier's merry mutants: The X-Men! Evil Darkseid assures him all is going to plan. The Brotherhood seem to think so as well, Mystique ordering a strategic retreat as a thundering boom tube opens to whisk them from the battlefield.

Professor Xavier telepathically warns the gathering of young heroes of the New Gods' evil he sensed, leaving them to await further instruction in victory.

The Hammer...

An unexpected end to an unexpected crossover! The momentum may have been shifting to the bad guys, but plan or no plan - we're going to call this one a forfeit victory! That means the Teen Titans are the winners with the assist from the X-Men!

Admittedly - this wasn't an easy call to make. There was no decisive finishing blow. Cyclops & Iceman got the last offensive, but they arguably only stalled their target. The Titans were able to take several villains out of the fight during the melee, even if they had their own visual losses as well. The X-Men's arrival ultimately prompted The Brotherhood's retreat, but the X-Men didn't participate enough share in victory.

For those who might be wondering - the X-Men who arrive on the scene are the earliest first class: Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Beast & Marvel Girl. So new - they don't even recognize Juggernaut: who the team first faced way back in 1965's X-Men #12! Those're some bona fide near mint mutants!

As noted in The Tape; the meeting of Titans and X-Men isn't without precedent. The original 1982 crossover was the last collaboration between DC and Marvel for over a decade. It played up the similarities of teen superhero drama that permeated the pages of both popular books. I'm not sure how many people were clamoring for the 90s Teen Titans to meet the 60s X-Men, but I suppose it has a certain charm. It certainly plays to the sixties retro fad that was going on at the time of publication. Not that comics ever need a reason to be nostalgic!

As in a lot of the crossovers of this period, they get away with some fun nods. Wonder Girl quizzes Marvel Girl about the X-Men being "misfit heroes like the old Doom Patrol". A fun jab at an old comparison. Of course, they also kinda did it a couple of years earlier, when the Amalgam mash-ups delivered X-Patrol. I'm not sure X-Force fit the bill quite as well, but it's close enough.

If you've been keeping up with our regular Hero of the Week entries, you know Doom Patrol is a series I've had on my mind [04/11/2016]. I'm hoping we'll get a chance to talk more about them some time soon. Today's feature was a nice chance to delve into another neglected corner of the DCU - the Teen Titans!

Admittedly, I've never been a big fan. Reading the adventures of Robin, Wonder Girl and Kid Flash had its thrills as a small boy, but the melodrama and sidekick angst of iconic Titans never geld with me. Not even as a teen. Kid heroes struck me as disappointingly second-rate as a kid. My peers ain't no Justice League! I'm slowly coming around, though. The idea of bundling existing young heroes together is certainly a good one.

The deviation of Doom Patrol's Changeling to iconic Teen Titan is the kind of living evolution that makes comics great. At least until line-wide reboots erase the chronology. DC's Rebirth is fixing to reinject first and third generation heroes into the New 52 line-up. It's something, I suppose.

The Titans line-up featured here may not be traditional - but it's much easier to appreciate. I've particularly enjoyed watching Captain Marvel Jr climb the site ranks. Glad to have Impulse on the record, as well. I wasn't sure on first look, but he's often struck me as a better junior alternate to the Flash than latter day versions of Kid Flash. Giving the Teens their own identity and mythology always helps. Especially when it isn't soaked in self-serious sobbing and lame rejects.

If you noticed me ducking references to Wonder Girl, it's largely because I'm a little sketchy on what was going on with Donna Troy during the short 'n' nerdy years. Undoing that predicament in the years that followed - a good idea. With any luck we'll get a chance to explore all of these characters at a later point.

Sadly, we won't be adventuring further into the realm of big league comics crossovers! This feature concludes our April celebration of the 20th Anniversary of Marvel versus DC and the 10th of our original feature(s). Fear not, though! There are still plenty of weird and wonderful combinations I'm sure we'll dig up in the future! You can also dig through the back issues via our Secret Archive Index, character tags and links, or by hitting up our recent retrospective in Old Comics Wednesday: DC versus Marvel!

Coming soon: We turn our attentions to heroic battles of another kind! Be here next week when we witness one of the first ever showdowns between two of Marvel's greatest hand-to-hand combatants of all time! See you then!

Winners: Teen Titans (w/ X-Men)

#25 (+7) Robin

#59 (+40) Captain Marvel Jr

#100 (+195) Superboy

#280 (new) Wonder Girl (Donna Troy)

#281 (new) Impulse

#38 (+1) Beast [+1 Assist]

#61 (-1) Angel [+1 Assist]

#64 (-1) Cyclops [+1 Assist]

#103 (-1) Marvel Girl (Jean Grey) [+1 Assist]

#109 (-1) Ice Man [+1 Assist]

#343 (-15) Scarlet Witch

#349 (-9) Juggernaut

#774 (new) Blob

#775 (new) Mystique

#786 (-243) Mastermind

#805 (-21) Toad

#808 (-11) Sabretooth

#813 (-8) Quicksilver