DEATHSTROKE versus ROBIN
Apokolips... Now (DC/Marvel)
Where: Uncanny X-Men and The New Teen Titans #1 When: 1982 Why: Chris Claremont How: Walt Simonson
The Story So Far...
Nightmares plague the young heroes of the X-Men and Teen Titans. The memory of fallen comrade Phoenix haunts the mind and heart of those who loved her, while a universe away, her flaming visage inspires terror.
Across the gulf of space: Darkseid contemplates the means to penetrate and harness the supreme power of The Source Wall. His plan: to send his agents to collect the residual psychic energies left on Earth by the cosmic Phoenix entity.
Flanked by an army of Para-Demon soldiers, Deathstroke accepts Darkseid's mission to lead a quest to accrue cosmic energy. First he must acquire a specific scientific device from STAR Labs in Gotham City. A burglary that inevitably brings him into conflict with his nemesis - the Teen Titan: Robin!
Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Deathstroke 3 (Athlete)
Intelligence: Deathstroke 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Draw 3 (Athlete)
Stamina: Draw 4 (Athlete)
Agility: Nightwing 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting: Deathstroke 7 (Living Weapon)
Energy: Draw 2 (Projectiles)
Total: Deathstroke 26 (Metahuman)
The Deathstroke file doesn't run as deep as it should, but it already paints a picture of a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant! They don't call him "The Terminator" for nothing, and past battles have shown his 90% brain function gives him the speed, reflexes, and cognition to take down entire teams!
We've seen Deathstroke get the drop on Wolverine while single-handedly taking down the X-Men in Uncanny X-Men and The Teen Titans #1! He also famously fought the Justice League to a near standstill in Identity Crisis #3, tactically outmaneuvering and neutralizing threats from: Flash, Zatanna, Hawkman, Black Canary, Green Lantern, and Atom!
He may actually be more dangerous working alone, rather than in a team, but that's up for debate: He left the Injustice League to fend for themselves when an all-star JLA showed up in Justice League of America #15. Working as part of The Society, Deathstroke stuck around for the win, skewering Phantom Lady during a successful takedown of the Freedom Fighters [in Infinite Crisis #1].
There's no doubting the team-up credentials of his opponent! Robin cut his teeth as the original boy wonder, fighting by Batman's side in his formative years, before founding the sidekick alliance of the first Teen Titans!
In the later guise of Nightwing he helped Batman stop Two-Face in Batman #442, overcame a rampaging Amazo in Batman #637, and thwarted The Penguin, Girder & Double Down in a team-up with former Titan, The Flash, in Flash #210! He also flew solo to defeat Firefly [Nightwing #98] and outfought would-be Bat-impostor Jason Todd in Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3!
It's obvious Dick Grayson has a bright future ahead, but today's battle is looking back to his days as Robin! He may not be a rookie in his debuting year, but he's still a young hero taking on a seasoned veteran!
Deathstroke's training, experience, and biological enhancements mean he's every bit the match for Robin's mentor! The Boy Wonder will need to call upon his origins as a circus acrobat to take advantage of his superior agility, but even then he's going to have a very tough task taking on The Terminator!
The Tape: Deathstroke Ranking: Robin (#19)
What Went Down...
The sound of shattering glass interrupts the Gotham City night as Robin thwarts a break-in at STAR Labs! Moving beyond the broken pane, he investigates his toppled opponent -- but doesn't find the usual breed of Intergang agent!
For all the twisted sights he's seen - even The Boy Wonder is shocked by the grotesque visage of the unconscious robber! A stern voice from the shadows educates him on its proper name and purpose: a para-demon in the service of Deathstroke The Terminator!
The mercenary fires his high-powered weapon at the crouching boy wonder, but Robin effortlessly leaps clear of its deadly blast!
Deathstroke may've failed to get the drop on his target with his initial unannounced attack, but he's already planning one-step ahead, catching Robin upon landing with a devastating thrust kick to the face!
The precious blow ends the fight as quickly as it started, knocking Robin out cold! Lucky for him, Deathstroke is there to complete an objective, acquiring the equipment he needs before leaving unhindered with his parademon associates.
The Hammer...
Cold, clean, and efficient. This is peak Deathstroke, taking down the leader of the Teen Titans just a year or so into their arch-rivalry. A harsh lesson for Robin, who otherwise did quite well taking down a squad of parademons!
Unless I'm very much mistaken: this is the first time we've looked at characters from the same company going head-to-head during a DC/Marvel crossover! It isn't something that happens all that often. Usually the focus is on the novelty of unfamiliar combinations, even if it's as innocuous a battle as Scorpion vs Batman, or Terrax vs Green Lantern. Kind of novel for not being novel!
This is also the first blemish on Dick Grayson's record, ending his reign as the highest ranking character without a loss! That rare accolade will now pass to another member of the Titans: #27 Wally West! Given the turmoil the third Flash has been through in recent years - I wonder how long it will last!
It's fun to finally go back to an example of Dick Grayson as the Boy Wonder! It's really become second nature to think of the character as Nightwing, but it'll still be another ten years before he even equals his tenure as the original Robin!
The Nightwing costume and identity is closely linked with the Titans, debuting in Tales of the Teen Titans #44, as part of 1984's revered Judas Contract story. Not exactly recent history, but still fairly late in the grand scheme of comics, and the history of what is ultimately a Golden Age character from 1940.
A combination of back issues, cartoons, reruns of the 60s Batman TV show, and general zeitgeist meant Grayson's Robin was still a big part of my early experience. There's a slight pang of nostalgia that goes with that, but for the most part, it was very easy to accept Robin maturing into his own hero.
It's easy to dismiss that kind of acceptance as a symptom of reader's age, but I think there's more to consider. Robin's exact age as Batman's sidekick is usually hazy, but I prefer to think of it as being in the double-digits, at the very least. A teenage Dick Grayson lent the concept of "Robin" to an ideal balance of Grayson being the Robin who grew up, Jason Todd being the Robin who failed (or died), and Tim Drake being the Robin who was young in the moment.
The trio of Robins, though created somewhat in happenstance, facilitated three intriguing facets of the same basic concept, able to be explored in a coexistence that wouldn't age Bruce Wayne beyond reason. Important reference if we accept that there's little to be gained from DC Comics ever killing off their senior icons.
In such a scenario, Nightwing as a young adult hero is a permanent fixture, rather than a catalyst for a continuum of evolving characters. A perspective on the core concept of the kid sidekick, now served by a contemporary Tim Drake.
Of course, the great Grant Morrison made a dangerously convincing case for Dick Grayson in his ultimate role as Batman! It seems like it shouldn't work, given the obvious affection and iconic immortality that exists for Bruce Wayne, but in Batman and Robin, Morrison made the short-term novelty of the stand-in Batman seem wholly palatable! Grayson retained a sense of identity, putting a surprising fresh spin on Batman that could've continued beyond Bruce's return!
It should be said, in the nineties, it seemed as if the advancement of legacy identities would be a unique point of difference for DC Comics. I often wonder what the landscape would've been like had they committed to a contemporary line-up of Wally West as Flash, Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern, Roy Harper as Green Arrow, and eventually Dick Grayson as Batman, among others. They all had their controversies, but were also becoming entrenched as successors.
As strong as some of those characters were, I can't help but return to the wisdom of retaining original icons. It just doesn't make sense to burn the starpower of the icons everybody knows. The immortality of Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and so on is arguably one of the unique perks of the medium. Still, it would be very interesting to see a series explore the future DC once promised. An Earth-2 or Ultimates style book about a world where Superman died, Batman was crippled, Hal Jordan went nuts, Barry Allen saved the universe, and the new generation are the heroes of the day.
The inverse is true in live-action television and animation! Fans of the screen have been watching Dick Grayson's animated adventures as Robin since 2003's Teen Titans, which gave way to Teen Titans GO! and the unrelated Young Justice. Now the Teen Titans brand is venturing into live-action with Titans - now streaming on the new DC Universe service!
Be sure to explore links throughout this post, and find more by diving into the Secret Archive for battles from DC Comics and beyond! It's almost time for The Best Featured Fights of 2018! Make sure you hit up your favourites to get them into the Top 20 and check out Facebook and Twitter to like & share daily fights!
Winner: Deathstroke
#65 (+41) Deathstroke
#19 (--) Nightwing (Dick Grayson)
Where: Uncanny X-Men and The New Teen Titans #1 When: 1982 Why: Chris Claremont How: Walt Simonson
The Story So Far...
Nightmares plague the young heroes of the X-Men and Teen Titans. The memory of fallen comrade Phoenix haunts the mind and heart of those who loved her, while a universe away, her flaming visage inspires terror.
Across the gulf of space: Darkseid contemplates the means to penetrate and harness the supreme power of The Source Wall. His plan: to send his agents to collect the residual psychic energies left on Earth by the cosmic Phoenix entity.
Flanked by an army of Para-Demon soldiers, Deathstroke accepts Darkseid's mission to lead a quest to accrue cosmic energy. First he must acquire a specific scientific device from STAR Labs in Gotham City. A burglary that inevitably brings him into conflict with his nemesis - the Teen Titan: Robin!
Tale of the Tape...
Strength: Deathstroke 3 (Athlete)Intelligence: Deathstroke 4 (Tactician)
Speed: Draw 3 (Athlete)
Stamina: Draw 4 (Athlete)
Agility: Nightwing 4 (Gymnast)
Fighting: Deathstroke 7 (Living Weapon)
Energy: Draw 2 (Projectiles)
Total: Deathstroke 26 (Metahuman)
The Deathstroke file doesn't run as deep as it should, but it already paints a picture of a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant! They don't call him "The Terminator" for nothing, and past battles have shown his 90% brain function gives him the speed, reflexes, and cognition to take down entire teams!
We've seen Deathstroke get the drop on Wolverine while single-handedly taking down the X-Men in Uncanny X-Men and The Teen Titans #1! He also famously fought the Justice League to a near standstill in Identity Crisis #3, tactically outmaneuvering and neutralizing threats from: Flash, Zatanna, Hawkman, Black Canary, Green Lantern, and Atom!
He may actually be more dangerous working alone, rather than in a team, but that's up for debate: He left the Injustice League to fend for themselves when an all-star JLA showed up in Justice League of America #15. Working as part of The Society, Deathstroke stuck around for the win, skewering Phantom Lady during a successful takedown of the Freedom Fighters [in Infinite Crisis #1].
There's no doubting the team-up credentials of his opponent! Robin cut his teeth as the original boy wonder, fighting by Batman's side in his formative years, before founding the sidekick alliance of the first Teen Titans!
In the later guise of Nightwing he helped Batman stop Two-Face in Batman #442, overcame a rampaging Amazo in Batman #637, and thwarted The Penguin, Girder & Double Down in a team-up with former Titan, The Flash, in Flash #210! He also flew solo to defeat Firefly [Nightwing #98] and outfought would-be Bat-impostor Jason Todd in Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3!
It's obvious Dick Grayson has a bright future ahead, but today's battle is looking back to his days as Robin! He may not be a rookie in his debuting year, but he's still a young hero taking on a seasoned veteran!
Deathstroke's training, experience, and biological enhancements mean he's every bit the match for Robin's mentor! The Boy Wonder will need to call upon his origins as a circus acrobat to take advantage of his superior agility, but even then he's going to have a very tough task taking on The Terminator!
The Tape: Deathstroke Ranking: Robin (#19)
What Went Down...
The sound of shattering glass interrupts the Gotham City night as Robin thwarts a break-in at STAR Labs! Moving beyond the broken pane, he investigates his toppled opponent -- but doesn't find the usual breed of Intergang agent!
For all the twisted sights he's seen - even The Boy Wonder is shocked by the grotesque visage of the unconscious robber! A stern voice from the shadows educates him on its proper name and purpose: a para-demon in the service of Deathstroke The Terminator!
The mercenary fires his high-powered weapon at the crouching boy wonder, but Robin effortlessly leaps clear of its deadly blast!
Deathstroke may've failed to get the drop on his target with his initial unannounced attack, but he's already planning one-step ahead, catching Robin upon landing with a devastating thrust kick to the face!
The precious blow ends the fight as quickly as it started, knocking Robin out cold! Lucky for him, Deathstroke is there to complete an objective, acquiring the equipment he needs before leaving unhindered with his parademon associates.
The Hammer...
Cold, clean, and efficient. This is peak Deathstroke, taking down the leader of the Teen Titans just a year or so into their arch-rivalry. A harsh lesson for Robin, who otherwise did quite well taking down a squad of parademons!
Unless I'm very much mistaken: this is the first time we've looked at characters from the same company going head-to-head during a DC/Marvel crossover! It isn't something that happens all that often. Usually the focus is on the novelty of unfamiliar combinations, even if it's as innocuous a battle as Scorpion vs Batman, or Terrax vs Green Lantern. Kind of novel for not being novel!
This is also the first blemish on Dick Grayson's record, ending his reign as the highest ranking character without a loss! That rare accolade will now pass to another member of the Titans: #27 Wally West! Given the turmoil the third Flash has been through in recent years - I wonder how long it will last!
It's fun to finally go back to an example of Dick Grayson as the Boy Wonder! It's really become second nature to think of the character as Nightwing, but it'll still be another ten years before he even equals his tenure as the original Robin!
The Nightwing costume and identity is closely linked with the Titans, debuting in Tales of the Teen Titans #44, as part of 1984's revered Judas Contract story. Not exactly recent history, but still fairly late in the grand scheme of comics, and the history of what is ultimately a Golden Age character from 1940.
A combination of back issues, cartoons, reruns of the 60s Batman TV show, and general zeitgeist meant Grayson's Robin was still a big part of my early experience. There's a slight pang of nostalgia that goes with that, but for the most part, it was very easy to accept Robin maturing into his own hero.
It's easy to dismiss that kind of acceptance as a symptom of reader's age, but I think there's more to consider. Robin's exact age as Batman's sidekick is usually hazy, but I prefer to think of it as being in the double-digits, at the very least. A teenage Dick Grayson lent the concept of "Robin" to an ideal balance of Grayson being the Robin who grew up, Jason Todd being the Robin who failed (or died), and Tim Drake being the Robin who was young in the moment.
The trio of Robins, though created somewhat in happenstance, facilitated three intriguing facets of the same basic concept, able to be explored in a coexistence that wouldn't age Bruce Wayne beyond reason. Important reference if we accept that there's little to be gained from DC Comics ever killing off their senior icons.
In such a scenario, Nightwing as a young adult hero is a permanent fixture, rather than a catalyst for a continuum of evolving characters. A perspective on the core concept of the kid sidekick, now served by a contemporary Tim Drake.
Of course, the great Grant Morrison made a dangerously convincing case for Dick Grayson in his ultimate role as Batman! It seems like it shouldn't work, given the obvious affection and iconic immortality that exists for Bruce Wayne, but in Batman and Robin, Morrison made the short-term novelty of the stand-in Batman seem wholly palatable! Grayson retained a sense of identity, putting a surprising fresh spin on Batman that could've continued beyond Bruce's return!
It should be said, in the nineties, it seemed as if the advancement of legacy identities would be a unique point of difference for DC Comics. I often wonder what the landscape would've been like had they committed to a contemporary line-up of Wally West as Flash, Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern, Roy Harper as Green Arrow, and eventually Dick Grayson as Batman, among others. They all had their controversies, but were also becoming entrenched as successors.
As strong as some of those characters were, I can't help but return to the wisdom of retaining original icons. It just doesn't make sense to burn the starpower of the icons everybody knows. The immortality of Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and so on is arguably one of the unique perks of the medium. Still, it would be very interesting to see a series explore the future DC once promised. An Earth-2 or Ultimates style book about a world where Superman died, Batman was crippled, Hal Jordan went nuts, Barry Allen saved the universe, and the new generation are the heroes of the day.
The inverse is true in live-action television and animation! Fans of the screen have been watching Dick Grayson's animated adventures as Robin since 2003's Teen Titans, which gave way to Teen Titans GO! and the unrelated Young Justice. Now the Teen Titans brand is venturing into live-action with Titans - now streaming on the new DC Universe service!
Be sure to explore links throughout this post, and find more by diving into the Secret Archive for battles from DC Comics and beyond! It's almost time for The Best Featured Fights of 2018! Make sure you hit up your favourites to get them into the Top 20 and check out Facebook and Twitter to like & share daily fights!
Winner: Deathstroke
#65 (+41) Deathstroke
#19 (--) Nightwing (Dick Grayson)
